We Cannot Ignore Buddhist Extremism—Lions Roar

I listened to most of that video. Have to admit, I felt sad for those folks. They struck me as the least spiritual, least enlightened, most troubled and troubling seekers I’ve seen in a good while. the “What’s with this climate change nonsense” seemed to come out of nowhere. Thanks for sharing but man, those folks seem majorly F’d up.

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To be honest, I never understood the fascination with JP as a public intellectual. I’m happy I finished up at U of T before he became a newsworthy item and got on the amazon bestseller list.
In comparison, I’d rather see Noam Chomsky get more airtime :wink:.

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The article I linked above was quite insightful.

I think it’s people who are looking for some sense of validation and can see themselves in his thoughts. JP sounds like he is constantly reaching for something profound. Even if he fails to articulate what that is, he conveys the impression that the profound is there. He appeals to people who feel left behind in the modern world, yet who can’t admit to themselves that their defilements, especially misogyny, are flaws.

I find his manner of communication similar to Trump in that way (not in others, obviously). Both speak in this incoherent manner, and have this oddness to their physical presence and vocal cadence. And when you analyze the details, they often fail to say anything at all. Yet they convey this impression of meaning, which allows their audience to fill in the gaps. And that means that, for the audience, the meaning is formed in their own minds, not by the words as such. The truth is not something that is conveyed from the speaker to the audience, it is a shared reality that they both grasp.

Now, that “shared reality” is not, of course, real. It is a delusion, fueled by the energies that erupt when you validate and encourage the worst impulses of humanity. But it is given life and shape by the man on the stage, who fulfills a longed-for archetype: the “successful” man who “did it his way”; or the revered “intellectual” who “sees the truth” that others are too blind to see, or too cowardly to admit. This elevated status means that they both get to publicly indulge their base instincts, for example, gratuitous comments on women’s bodies. And if they do it, it must be okay, right?

This is why no intellectual criticism of JP would matter to his acolytes. I think JP himself believes that he has access to a hidden, secret wisdom that only he understands. To me, it sounds like warmed-over Jung served on a self-help platter, with a rich sauce of grandiosity spiced with lashings of resentment.

Both Trump and JP are masters at saying nothing but seeming like they are saying exactly what their audience wants to hear.

There’s a good critique of his work here:

Peterson’s allusive style makes critiquing him like trying to nail jelly to a cloud

Finally, I’ll just leave this here. In case you’re wondering, yes, this is Skeletor speaking the actual words of JP.

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A word salad almost :rofl:

I can’t resist…

Modern day prophets to hitch your bandwagon to- insecurities, extremist views, defilements and all :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.

But dragging the Buddha into that cesspool should never be ignored which Brenna’s article highlights :no_mouth:

(I loved the video, but I disagree using Skeletor though, he had super one-liners and fantastic diction!
Plus he was an compassionate and equal opportunity employer. How else could Beastman have stayed on the job for so long?! All those incompetent b¢¢bs never got fired. Possibly unionized. Something JP or Trump might not agree with.)
:rofl::rofl:

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Apologies for the Skeletor slander!

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That is one of the best things I have ever seen. Pure gold.

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I think Abigail Thorn’s video on him is one of the best out there. She doesn’t just say that he’s wrong, but gives us tools to dismantle his methods. Also fascinating to see the parallels between JP and Buddhist extremists. The way JP uses the self-help genre is similar to the way the Dhamma can be misused to trojan horse extremism.

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Also, adding things like JBP eating only meat and salt (carnivore diet) adds an ascetic aesthetic to the whole ordeal.

I mean, humans are literally not carnivores, and will die from scurvy without vitamin C. Symbolically, carnivorism transcends the human condition, while being tailored to culture war topics like environmentalism, veganism, etc.

So I think JBP succeeds in creating an overall aesthetic that implies insights beyond the ordinary. He is an alt-right mystic in many ways.

But weirdly, he also wields the aesthetic of the rational scientist, merely conveying “the science”, creating the feeling that one’s political opinions are not opinions but correspond with eternal external structures (the modern version of God).

Basically, he’s like an alt-right science mystic.

Of course, this doesn’t appeal to anyone who is familiar with the scientific method, or has the emotional maturity to not seek to rationalize one’s worst tendencies (or both).

See e.g. Jordan Peterson doesn’t understand gender discrimination by Unlearning Economics.

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My understanding (not to set off a diet debate) is that some people can live off of only eating animals, but you have to eat the organ meat as well. Perhaps this could be a metaphor for the alt-right adaptation of Buddhism. You have to eat the whole thing otherwise you get sick. Leaving off compassion and humility (not to mention the wisdom that seems missing) will get you a Buddhism that makes you unwell.

Yes but, symbolically, I propose it is about transcending our frugivore/starchivore past and ‘becoming the predator’, (symbolically) leaving behind human weaknesses like empathy and concern for others, embracing the spirituality of raw domination; literally surviving solely on the death and suffering of other living beings (research animal agriculture if you don’t believe me).

Imagine if JBP said that living only on twinkies and multivitamins cured his depression (like carnivorism, possible but not advisable). That’s not an the diet of an “alpha”, that would make him look ridiculous.

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Thanks for reminding me why my YT videos are audio-only!

She brings a much-needed voice of reason and clarity.

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In the days before social media – which does have positive aspects – but in the days before people had broad access to it, folks like Mr. Trump and JP would have been left to ranting in front of a few folks in their garages or stapling mimeographed diatribes to telephone poles to get their messages out.

Now they reach millions, very like the way viruses spread through populations. There are studies that have illustrated this.
But we don’t have vaccines for folks who wish to believe whatever biased and hurtful nonsense comes their way.

Well, there is a “vaccine” – but it takes time and effort and a Sangha. :grin:

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I thought for a moment JP Sears was being cancelled. :grin:

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Whoops! Maybe should have been more specific! :grinning:

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I haven’t been to that site in years. I’ve been paying it a few visits recently. I was disheartened to see an ongoing thread about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines. At this point, anything that can be said on that topic is misinformation/disinformation that could get people sick or killed. I don’t think it is ethical for any web site to give a forum to that.

I’ve seen a few threads that seems to indicate some people there have an ongoing problem with women in Buddhism, and women in general.

In my opinion it is a massive “FAIL” for people interested in Buddhism to get caught up in the negative emotions and cognitive distortions that come with right wing talking points.

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Sadly one of the consequences of having a very tolerant moderation policy is that you will see more posts of that nature (regarding COVID and women). I do hope you noticed that said posts do get debunked quite often. Things have also improved lately, since some more troubling members were removed.

I might have been open to that idea a few years ago, but in the last few years I have seen democracy in the US come to be threatened, and a health crisis fatally politicized by the right wing using the Internet to spread disinformation.

What I’ve noticed there is that those spreading it won’t ever change their mind, whilst those agreeing are just confirming what they believed anyway.

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In the last month or two I’ve encountered people online ( not here ) that really know their suttas, at least better than I do. One of them is a bitter person who seemed to intentionally try to belittle and offend people who posts he responded to. Another person well versed in the suttas spent what must have been hours in making an anti-woman meme he posted that consisted of a number of sutta quotes derisive to women. It is tempting to think that their practices are unbalanced, that if cranked up the meditation, cranked up the metta, and cranked up the generosity they would be different people. Sadly my personal experience has proved to me otherwise. Years ago I had a meditation teacher explain to me why a friend wasn’t fit for a 20 day retreat because she was gay. I’ve heard bigoted remarks from people who did charity work or who made large donations. Maybe these people weren’t focused on just one aspect of practice, but were still unbalanced by needing to include more elements.

I recently had one of these people PM me messages in upper case letters and writing in an adolescent way trying to provoke a reaction from me ---- after I wrote them in private, in a kind way, letting them know that I appreciated their knowledge, but that they seemed to be hurting people.

Some of the right wing Buddhists are buffoons almost completely bereft of actual Buddhist knowledge, but some of the more bitter ones, the ones motivated by hate, do have some impressive levels of knowledge about Buddhism.

More people read and are influenced by Internet posts than the ones who publicly respond.

Even assuming your point is completely true, then it would be pointless to host such discussions as no minds would be changed. Such discussions would only be aiding corrupt mentalities by letting them bond over disinformation and feel supported from it.