Weight-loss drugs & the cessation of craving

I’ve been learning a lot from Ven. Sunyo’s recent essays and posts focusing on the aggregates & the four noble truths.

(Can I mention his interpretation of “experience” in Pali – that is, the lack of evidence for use of this sense of the term in the suttas :slightly_smiling_face:? A delightful and gentle rebuttal of other translators’ word choice.)

Anyway, he offers additional, valuable insight via a recent Q/A thread on the “cessation” of suffering. I won’t quote it over here. Suffice to say it’s worth reviewing if one’s interested in this aspect of the 4NTs.

I am.

I’m observing, here in the US, the disappearance of people’s bodies through weight-loss drugs. I’m not referring to people who medically qualify due to Type II diabetes.

I’m talking about people who ostensibly are using the drugs for body-shaping. Off-market options for obtaining them proliferate – it’s like a new street drug. Especially for affluent white people.

There’s almost a new cultural norm developing that it’s expected you start taking them around a certain age when weight gain happens through the aging process. Aging bodies are disappearing all around me.

It’s my understanding that the drug – whatever brand name variety – tells the brain that eating food is toxic. (Hence some of the side effects.) Appetite reduces to almost nothing.

Thus the cessation of craving food (much less wanting it at all).

I read about some people experiencing relief if not elation over the cessation of craving – it even bleeds into addictive craving for other substances, apparently. In that regard, it holds promise for helping people get sober.

However, the cessation of food craving happens outside any moral or ethical framework – outside any “realization” context. That is, people are not encouraged or taught to use this opportunity to reflect on the craving itself.

Here, in full view, we have a country of (wealthy) people obsessed with the pleasures of food – and the accompanying rituals – while making their bodies disappear at the same time.

:folded_hands:

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It would be awesome if whatever discussion that follows doesn’t turn into a festival of shaming people for their bodies or the choices they make about them.

This is a public discussion and all kinds of people are going to be reading it. It’s much easier to rant that to cultivate empathy.

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I wholeheartedly agree, Bhante. The sentiment behind my OP is that, where I live, we are deluged with constant attention suckers around food experience and craving it; around gross materiality 24/7.

Here, with this new type of drug, there is an opportunity to explore craving in a secular framework – in a much-needed way. I feel there is an opportunity for Buddhists to contribute to the cultural if not academic discussion. It is nearly impossible, if one has eyesight, to deny the rapid changes happening around bodies.

We inhabit them. I feel people on this forum have enough goodwill to discuss this and stay within kind boundaries.

:folded_hands:

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My hubby is using it as recommended by his GP. He is really overweight, and it affects his liver, coordination, and other aspects of his health, which puts his well‑being at risk. My GP also recommended it to me, but I don’t like needles. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Anyway, my contribution to your topic is that some Thai women want to use these drugs purely to look good, even though they don’t clinically need them, and they are willing to pay high prices to obtain them illegally. (In Australia, these drugs require a prescription, so they try to buy prescriptions from someone who has them, which means I could have another source of easy income! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: :laughing: :rofl:)

A woman living nearby just went to Korea and spent over AUD 50,000 on facial surgeries. She came back looking much younger and very beautiful.

The movie Shallow Hal shows this very well: if we could see people’s appearance according to their hearts, people who seem not so good‑looking would actually appear beautiful.

It seems to me that our attitudes towards life are sadly and seriously influenced by wrong views. If only we valued what is truly valuable and were less interested in superficial things.

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I must be very unplugged from the mainstream world, as I’ve never heard of drugs like this.

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For the people using these drugs for cosmetic reasons they are just fueling craving.

The research on Dysmorphia seems to show that people are no more happy after undergoing cosmetic medical interventions and that it can even lead to a cycle of further cosmetic medical interventions. The looksmaxxing phenomenon, seen in young men, is a disturbing example of this.
This episode of All in the Mind, was very interesting from a psychological point of view.

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People in this world use a lot of things to fuel craving. I’m not sure why folks are fixated on this. Perhaps because it is so easy to “other” these folks? To me it just feels like an excuse to hate on people we have already decided are undesirable.

I think mn139 gives us really good guidance on how to think and talk about issues like this.

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Perhaps moderators can close the thread now. The cultural issue has been exposed and wise ones have spoken to it.

:folded_hands:

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