What do I need to consider myself a Buddhist?

The Watercooler
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Marogui here.

I know that the question that I placed as a title may be considered offensive, ignorant or misplaced, but is a genuine question that I have and it’s been a while since i started asking it to myself. However, I want to declare that all my questions are from the ignorance and I’m as much respectful as my ignorance allows me to be. I’m also gonna add some context to be clearly and make my point understandable.

I’ve been raised and educated as a Catholic my whole life. Even my grandpa was closed to be a priest and one of my uncles was one. I never had another contact with other religions or spiritual practices, besides the other christians variations as the Mormons, the Jehovah witness or any other. I even had that wrong idea that Budai/Hotel was Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama). There was a time where I feel that I belong to the same faith as my family, but there was a lot of questions that I didn’t feel correctly answered or even answered at all. That’s were, for my own investigation I started asking questions to different religions about their beliefs and cosmological arguments about the world, the human condition and all kind of questions that a Seventeen years old kid could have about life and other stuff. None of them had the words that I was looking for. I get introduced to Buddhism by myself through YouTube videos about Buddha’s stories and most specifically the novel “Journey to the west” and I find a father figure in the eyes of the Buddha. I fell in love about his teachings and the path that he draw and discovered through the enlightenment.

For the last 4 almost 5 years I’ve been trying to reach as much material as I can about Buddhism. Books like “what the Buddha taught" helped me on my way to know about the beauty of the enlightenment philosophy/doctrine and every day my interested gets bigger and bigger, but the other day I had a question. What do I need to be considered as a Buddhist myself?

It might be a dumb question but in a reality like mine where a baptism makes you 100% a Catholic (of course that you can considered yourself a Catholic at the moment that you please) I don’t have a clearly idea where I can considered myself a Buddhist. I even had that conversation with friends where I don’t know what can I say about what I am. I usually just say that I’m a Buddhas follower or that I admire a lot his work and path.

It might be the wrong place, cause as far as I know and barely watched this is a forum were people disscuss and share Buddhist material, this is not a place where amateurs (if I can call it that way) can be formed as Buddhist, but an enlightenment place. But I have that question that I need to be solved. If I can’t or can (either way) considered myself a Buddhist I know that I need more knowledge and I would be deeply thanked if someone could answer my question, tell me practices or ways that I can use to make me find my way on this journey.

I also want to apologize for my poorly written, but English is not my first language and all that I know is something that I also learned by myself

All my love and blessings to all the forum and moderators.

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That’s good starting point, since the fundamental aim of practising Dhamma is to remove the very attitude “I am”. In most cases it cannot be done at once, so one first has to erase any kind of self-image, of “what I am”. In this sense to consider oneself “I am a Buddhst” is an obstacle. So good Buddhist doesn’t think “I am a Buddhist”, but do what the Buddha taught him to do. To discover what the Buddha taught the best source are Suttas.

On different level, to be recognised as the follower of the Buddha one should take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. After that is good to rise quality of ones own actions by taking moral precepts.

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Welcome to the D&D forum, Marogui! Your story is fascinating and I’m sure you’ll hear from many kind people with diverse outlooks here to help you find your way.

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You could check out the lay followers (upāsaka, upāsikā) section of the CIPS, especially

definition SN55.37 Mahānāma, AN8.25 Mahānāma, AN8.26 Jīvaka

Those are the technical specs.

I’m not sure the Buddha talks about “good Buddhists”. And that approach is more than a bit insulting to all the very good Buddhists around the world to do, in fact, consider themselves to be Buddhists.

In the suttas I gave above it’s more like Buddhist, Buddhist+, and Buddhist++.

@Marogui, welcome to the forum. You post is great and the question is a good one. The forum search might turn up past conversations.

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Taking refuge in the Triple Gem is the foundation, as SN 55.37 linked above shows. But what does “taking refuge in the Triple Gem” mean? Venerable Bodhi’s essay on the subject is very clarifying.

Apart from learning and study, self-reflection is required. Why would you want to follow the Buddha’s teachings? Why would you take refuge? No one can tell you the answer to these kinds of deep questions. The answers have to come from within, as cliche as that sounds.

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In addition to the excellent links above, if you’re looking for a normative but achievable description of lay Buddhist practices, I found this book extremely helpful when I was a newly converted layman:

https://buddhistuniversity.net/content/booklets/lay-buddhist-practice_khantipalo

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I would say that different traditions have different ways. From a personal standpoint - admittedly, informed by my own tradition - one “becomes a Buddhist” when one formally takes refuge in the triple gem. I should rephrase that and say, one formalizes an already existent commitment to the practice of the Buddha’s way by formally taking refuge.

In our Soto Zen tradition, for example, there is the receiving of the precepts, which is a formal ceremony, done within a sangha, called Jukai. One formally undertakes the sixteen bodhisattva precepts (which begin with the refuge), sews a little robe, and receives a Buddhist name from a recognized teacher.

Ultimately, I would say that one can consider oneself a Buddhist when one lives in accordance with the Buddha’s teachings, one’s life being the practice. When that happens, the rest comes naturally.

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Thanks for posting and for thinking about whether people may or may not be offended :slight_smile: I hope not to offend people here with my answer too.

I would have ticked ‘Buddhist’ on the census for about 50 years now if asked at a superficial level, but actually struggle with the answer at the deeper level. Correct me if wrong, but I think you are asking at the deeper level (as the taking of the Triple Refuge is definitely the answer as a simple and easily doable practice). However, everyone takes the triple refuge at the start of Goenka retreats and I was the only ‘Buddhist’ at the 10-day one I attended.

I have asked myself the exact question you have asked and have come to the purely personal decision that no such thing as a ‘Buddhist’ actually exists. Several monastics have told me that there are words for this term ‘Buddhist’ in the EBT, but I see them as generic words for ‘followers’. The Fourfold Assembly is a term often used for ‘Buddhist’ perhaps but to me reads as people following the advice the Buddha provided (full time or part-time in the case of monastics vs. lay followers perhaps), rather than people who have joined some exclusive club.

An example (as I understand it):

If Christianity is right, converting to Christianity determines whether you live or die

If Islam is right, converting to Islam determines whether you live or die.

In other words it seems quite important :slight_smile:

As I understand the teaching of the Buddha, and this is just me, there is no such thing as ‘converting’, no ritual, and to be honest, no actual ‘effect’ of converting……OTHER THAN if it has an impact on what you think, say and do (i.e., if you ‘convert’ and nothing changes in your way of life, nothing will change after ‘conversion’). Whereas, if you do not ‘convert’, go on living (as a Christian or Muslim for example), BUT change the way you think, speak and act to be more in line with the advice provided by the Buddha, then you will enjoy the benefits. In other words, Buddhism is the only religion that provides absolutely no benefit from conversion, unless you change your life. If that person has an identical twin who doesn’t convert but changes their lives in the exact same way as the first identical twin, then, as I see it, they get 100% of the benefit. Not 90% or 80% but literally 100%. Absolutely identical. Thats how I see it in my reading of the Early Buddhist Texts. I see no mention of ‘heathens’ or ‘infidels’ or ‘us vs. them’, indeed the only regular categorisation of beings is Noble Ones (all the classifications of Enlightened Beings) and EVERYONE ELSE, e.g., as I read it the Buddha considers me exactly the same as any unenlightened being of any other religion….after 50 years of trying to keep precepts and meditating (on and off) I get no special privileges!!!

But thats not to say disregard the teaching. I take it to mean disregard the label and just follow the advice. So, if you want to work in Physics, you need to use the equation E=MC squared. You dont need to call yourself an ‘Einsteinist’, that words has no meaning, just follow his advice :slight_smile:
So, from my perspective, I will keep ticking ‘Buddhist’ on census forms, but not attach too much weight to the term (other than to the extent the term reminds me to change how I think, speak and act).

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But it’s not that wrong, is it, Bhante? “Excellent” Buddhists, arahats, wouldn’t entertain the thought “I am”, let alone “I am a Buddhist”, is that not so? :slight_smile:

And I think that supplies a good ice breaker to a topic such as this, for people coming from different backgrounds, who still struggle with the concept of "being something " rather than “practising something”, not having spent a considerable time on considering anatta.

There we find the clinging - “Who am I? Am I a buddhist?”, which would be considered wrong ways to attend, as per MN2 if I should stretch the meaning.

Personally, I consider myself studying and practising Buddhism, upholding precepts, and that’s it. “Being” a Buddhist, in this conventional sense, just describes what I do, who I prefer to hang around with. But that’s just a label to help people understand these things, without anything more to it than a convention.

So, I think it’s useful to consider that Buddhist is not something one is, rather, does. That distinction might prove useful for people struggling with such identity problems, maybe. :slight_smile:

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For reference, this is known as Pascal’s wager (can also see past discussions by searching “Pascal”)

See also MN60, literally titled “A Sure Bet”, for the Buddhist variation on Pascal’s wager.
Also the “four consolations” starting at AN3.65:43.1

Agree. Programmer brain like this analogy too :laughing:

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As explained in many replies above, usually the definition of Buddhist layperson is someone who have taken refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. What does that supposed to mean, there are many books and articles written online that you can search.

Now what about baptism? Do Buddhists got baptized like Christians? Well, it depends. You can take refuge just by saying the refuge formula inside your heart. Or you can say it aloud in front of Buddha statue. Or you can say it in front of a monk inside a temple. Or in front of many monks. Do as you like. Different traditions have different ceremonies etc, but it’s all just decoration, the important thing is the conviction in your heart.

Then what to do after taking refuge? Standard practice is practicing five precepts. Then you may start exploring meditation, generosity, buddhist philosophy etc.

Also, there was interesting article back then about the views that underline Buddhism, that should be taken by Buddha’s disciple.

Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse - What Makes You Not A Buddhist.pdf (2.2 MB)

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Welcome to the forum, Marogui! There is a lot of beauty in Catholicism. When I was searching and exploring different religions, I read the Bible and I enjoyed the story aspect of the Bible. Even though I grew up in a predominantly Buddhist country, I didn’t really connect to Buddhism. I was a total outsider.

Then, somehow, my spirit led me to the encounter with a Theravadan monk, I ended up reading the Majjhima Nikaya Sutta number 2 first. I think after reading this sutta, it marked my first “official” meeting with the Buddha’s teaching.

Maybe if you’re looking to deepen your practice, you might find it helpful to visit a monastery and learn from a monastic Sangha. For me, formally taking the 5 precepts and the Triple Gem with a Venerable was a turning point. Yet sometimes, I still do not consider myself a Buddhist in a cultural sense. But if it is in the sense of worldview/understanding of Dhamma, then I’m definitely a Buddhist.

You’re not alone in this. We had a great discussion in the thread “Am I a Buddhist?” that you might find interesting. You might want to check it out and see everyone’s skilful and wholesome ways of adapting Buddhist practice to their previous conditioned situation.

There’s an old saying that “when the student is ready, the teacher appears.” I wish you all the best in finding a teacher and a community that feels like home to you.

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