Sorry, I reply here to both @Green and @yeshe.tenley comments on the other topic. As I think we get out of the topic there on does dhamma includes nibbana? Does “all Dhammas” include Nibbāna? - #88 by yeshe.tenley
Do you mean vinnana can also refer to unconsciousness
In Buddhist usage, viññāṇa is there, except for these few situations: cessation of perception and feelings, rebirth into non perceipient beings, and after the death of an arahant. So even deep sleep, even under anesthesia, there is still the bhavaṅga mind. It is different from the normal everyday usage of being awake means being conscious.
Yes, but this sutta does not teach an absence
Referring to AN9.34
When nothing is felt how is it happiness?
Exactly when nothing is felt it is happiness. I dunno how is it not an absence. Delusion of self forcing you to read it in a different way like as below?
Can that be interpreted as including the cessation of any perception of a self in things? As including the cessation of any perception of the phenomenal world as composing any true distinctions? As including the perception of the cessation of name and form?
I think Sariputta describes here the cessation of existence as the cessation of a personal perspective of me or I who perceives. There are only perceptions arising and ceasing.
And there is also still a…in me…perceptions arose in me.
Here this “me” is referring to the conventional self, which is the 5 aggregates we point to as say, this is Ven. Sariputta. To save on words, conventional self terminology is used, without misunderstanding that any ultimate self exist. Just remember that it’s always no self doctrine in Buddhism, so any reference to me said by the enlightened ones is to be intepreted as conventional usage, not to be misunderstood as supporting any notion of self existing.
@green, you still believe in a notion of a self, even intellectually, so it’ll be almost impossible for you to accept the doctrine of nothing after the death of an arahant. I think you should work on intellectually get the right understanding of no self first, before you are emotionally capable of dealing with this topic. Or else anything say, you will just reject and it just wastes our time. Well, the silent readers here may benefit, but it’s getting too long and I doubt many people will have the patience to read so long a forum topic. Really, I see not much point in engaging with you as you are not ready now.
@yeshe.tenley from wherever you get the notion of total cessation happens at enlightenment of Arahanthood and dismiss any importance to the death of an arahant, from tradition or your teacher or just your personal understanding, that view itself is a strong thing preventing you from agreeing with the notion of nothing left after the death of an arahant. As in 6 sense contacts, to remove any controversy of the form aggregates.
I also don’t see a possibility for you to open up until you can abandon that view you currently have and it takes a lot for that to be uprooted. I am not sure if you wish for it to be uprooted also. So anyway, I might not have enough energy, knowledge or skill to do it as well.
From Bhante @sujato 's blog post on nibbāna is not consciousness, from 2011, it can be seen that this is a persistent thing passed down, as if the views are memes, with life of their own and we are just machines replicating the same old arguments. Sometimes it gets tiring, especially for the senior monks who has been at it for much longer.
There are some cases of friends I know whom transitioned from Tibetan Buddhism or Mahayana in general to Theravada and point out to me the view that Theravada no self is actually deeper than mahayana emptiness. So there are success cases, but I dunno of the causes and conditions for their adopting right view. They also told me that it’s almost impossible for me to help some of those who has wrong knowledge affirming their wrong view of liberation. So I am just trying the hard way to find out just how hard it is. It is very hard indeed. Sorry, maybe you’re not of that category, but still it’s not easy.