What does it mean coarse and fine foods?

[Apeiron]

Sn12.63
The nutriment food, gross or subtle; second, contact; third, mental volition; fourth, consciousness. These are the four kinds of nutriment for the maintenance of beings that have already come to be and for the assistance of those about to come to be.

Coarse food is rice ?
Fine foods ?

[sujato]

The initial term here is kabaḷīkārāhāra, “solid” or “lumpy” food. There’s a few places where the devas are said to consume such food, eg. AN 11.13, DN1, etc. So I would think the distinction is between the “coarse” food of humans and animals and “refined” food of the gods.

[Apeiron]

@sujato

The initial term here is kabaḷīkārāhāra, “solid” or “lumpy” food.

@sujato

But , does it mean edible foods ?
If not , it could mean something else .

[sujato]

@Apeiron

does it mean edible foods

Well, food by definition is edible, so I prefer to avoid that translation. The root meaning is “lump, morsel, mouthful”.

[Apeiron]

@sujato

Well, food by definition is edible

Bhante ,

The sutta said nutriment food , including contact , mental volition , consciousness , which is not edible foods at all , does it ?

And , the nutriments mentioned supposed to be a part of four bases of contemplation , does it not ?

[sujato]

Well, this is a metaphorical usage. The point of specifying the first one as kabaḷīkārāhāra is to make it clear that it means food in the normal, literal sense. You can translate it as “edible” if you like, I just prefer to keep it more literal in this case.

@Apeiron

the nutriments mentioned supposed to be a part of four bases of contemplation

That’s right, yes.

[Apeiron]

@sujato

kabaḷīkārāhāra is to make it clear that it means food in the normal, literal sense

Bhante ,

But , the question is , the teaching here would stressed on the contemplation to end craving . Now , the Buddha and arahant disciples still consume foods after liberation , does that mean they still have to contemplate on the foods consummation ?!

FYI , if you don’t mind , I heard from a monk , he said here it was referring to
the 5 sense objects , would you agree ?!

Thank you .

[sujato]

@Apeiron

the teaching here would stressed on the contemplation to end craving

I’d say it’s more about understanding causality. But anyway, an arahant has perfected this understanding, so they can’t eat out of greed. They just eat!

@Apeiron

here it was referring to

the 5 sense objects , would you agree

That seems unnecessarily broad. The realm of edible food is of course associated with the sense sphere realm, but this teaching is pointing to a specific aspect of it.

[Apeiron]