I don’t understand why this constant tendency of people to mystify consciousness. It’s nothing mystic about it. It is what it is and all of us know what we are speaking about when we speak of consciousness.
Take for example a car parking sensor. There are 2 elements here: 1) the parking sensor and 2) things perceived by the parking sensor. In the case of humans there are 3 elements instead of 2: 1)the eye, 2)eye sights, 3)eye consciousness. The meeting of these 3 means contact. Because of contact, feelings, volitions and perceptions can arise. If there would be no contact, could such a thing as feeling ever arise ? Nope. Therefore feelings are dependent on contact.
What Buddha did was simply analyze the 5 aggregates and how they work just as one would analyze a car and how its pieces work. Mystifying the car or some part of the car will not help you. You need to simply analyze it in a technical way. Only then can you understand it.
As for Buddha opinion about relationship between consciousness and matter - it is an opinion that, unlinke materialism or solipsism, is in perfect harmony with current discoveries in quantum physics. If you claim Buddha view is outdated because he lived long ago - then provide one scientific discovery that refutes his view. Good luck finding one. It should be easy if he is such an outdated guy. Surely there must be at least one.
How exactly does the eye make contact with the things it sees? What happens after that contact occurs that enables conscious visual experiences to arise? What happens exactly upon the arising of those experiences that leads to the subsequent occurrence of related volitions and experiences. The kinds of answers people were inclined to give to these questions in the 5th century BCE are different than the ones they gave in the 14th century. And those were different than the ones that were developed in the 17th century. And those are different than the ones well-informed people have available today. No doubt our knowledge will continue to grow, and the best accounts will change again.
Let’s not put too much pressure on the Buddha to answer all of our questions. The man was a renunciate sage and spiritual teacher and guide, not a universal scientist who already knew everything.
I am not aware of any change in popular opinion about those questions. Can you show some answers that people gave in 14th century or 17th century regarding those questions ? And you show a couple of answers from modern-day people ?
What I would answer:
How exactly does the eye make contact with the things it sees?
In the same way a car parking sensor makes contact with the tree behind it. It is built in such a way that it can gather visual type of information.
What happens after that contact occurs that enables conscious visual experiences to arise?
Nothing. It happens because of the way the organism is built. It is built in such a way that consciousness has access to information gathered by the sense bases.
What happens exactly upon the arising of those experiences that leads to the subsequent occurrence of related volitions and experiences.
Mental tendencies developed in the past, information from past experience, etc. Due to the presence of these factors, the reaction to the new information will differ from subject to subject.
The world out there is not like we see it. There is no light inside your skull, the light you see is internally created by your mind. There is no color out there in the world, the colors you see are created by the way you are built as an organism.
Consider how this web page is actually just a bunch of 30 scripts of code that are only letters. It is only if put through a browser that these 30 files with code transform into a website with colors, buttons, etc. The mind transforms information it receives in the same way as a browser, and you end up with colors, light, etc.
The mind works like google chrome.
But there is a difference. If there would be no google chrome, the codes would still be there. Also google chrome can not modify the codes. In the case of the mind, there would be no codes if there would be no browser that has a possibility of ever reading those codes in the future (quantum physics). And the browser also has the ability to change these codes by itself, according to internal logic. (that’s why placebo works). It is only this internal logic that actually matters, and this is also how kamma works. And this internal logic, these internal rules of the browser through which it decides what will be displayed - these rules change depending on past experience, on things that were considered logical in the past + attachments that drag the browser into displaying certain things. (a lot more to talk here)
This topic was closed, due to flags, and to give moderators a chance to assess it. Thank-you to those who raised flags and to those who have edited their posts.
We work hard to keep this a polite and supportive community, and while it IS hard to keep emotions and desire to win an argument restrained, this online community is all the better for it.
And just a reminder, this is all supposed to be a support for the work of SC and EBT based… rather than a general buddhist forum. There are already quite a lot of those available, but only one SC
On some forums chunks of off-topic discussion are split off to a new thread. Would that be possible here?
If someone want’s to split the topic or move last posts into the a materialism-vs-buddhism related topic, that is fine with me too. Though it’s the first time I ever see a topic closed because of such a reason. The reporting functions of this forum give moderator powers to all users, something I do not understand the purpose of and something that is quite rare, if not unique for a forum.
I don’t think anything good ever came out of this system. Plus, a lot of bad has came out of it. Since it’s anonymous, people can censor opinions they don’t agree with or things they just don’t want to get posted. Even this very message can be censored anonymously on the basis of being offtopic, despite this being about an incident happening in this very thread. Normally, all forums I’ve seen allow a fair share of offtopic, or in any case are much more looser in this respect because it’'s something normal and natural. Then, if the offtopic conversation really gets active and more users join in, it gets split into another topic.
This was said in regards to this thread and indeed all threads in general. The moderator team are currently looking at clarifying these things again in the next few weeks, to ensure that all current members are clear about the purpose and processes of SC forum.
What does the Dhamma need in order to spread? And how can we help it?
The Dhamma needs practitioners who are living examples of the Buddha’s teachings, who will inspire others with their peaceful, loving, and positive qualities in daily life.
SN 1.10 Forest
t Savatthi. Standing to one side, that devatā recited this verse in the presence of the Blessed One:
“Those who dwell deep in the forest,
Peaceful, leading the holy life,
Eating but a single meal a day:
Why is their complexion so serene?”
The Blessed One:
“They do not sorrow over the past,
Nor do they hanker for the future.
They maintain themselves with what is present:
Hence their complexion is so serene.
“Through hankering for the future,
Through sorrowing over the past,
Fools dry up and wither away
Like a green reed cut down.”
