What is my essence?

[Sujith]

@Martin

@Sujith

Most of the time, this surface-level conceit is pretty much what passes for my ‘essence’. But, if somehow these superficial attachments are left behind, then there is still some awareness that seems to convey: I am. I can only observe it lurking in the background. Sometimes I call it as awareness of awareness. If I go by the suttas, then that self-identification is also the result of some form of clinging. Maybe it’s the desire to exist, to be.

Do you think it is related to self-preservation or “survival instinct”?
Self-preservation - Wikipedia

Possibly. You bring up a good point.

The complete eradication of self-identity is not a very pleasant idea to consider when living in a world that allures and taunts the mind with a wide array of glittering objects. To turn the mind away away from all the hopes, dreams, fantasies, imaginations, possessions and acquisitions that are constantly leading us on requires dissatisfaction and disillusionment. Even then, we end up seeking some ‘way of life’ or doctrine that somehow allows us to cling to a small bit of life-affirming momentum. On a mundane level, instinctual reflexes to preserve and safe-guard our well-being and those we hold dear is pretty much the main activity in life…

[Martin]

@tuvok

And here is the main difference with the atta - this thing (correct me if I’m wrong) is always described as permanent, eternal. If I remember correctly, in the suttas Buddha questions bhikkhus more or less in this manner: “if this <thing_being_discussed> is impermanent, can you call it atta?”. They always answer no. Which brings me to conclusion: my self is not atta (as defined in the suttas). I don’t think it’s permanent, actually I’m quite sure it’s not. I don’t see why it should be permanent.

Good point, and it depends what the a- prefix in “anatta” is intended to negate. Negating a permanent soul or essence ( “soul-view” ) is clearly different from negating a shifting sense of self or “me” ( “self-view” ).
Self-view and the conceit “I am” are two of the fetters - but do these refer to soul-view or self-view?

[Martin]

@Sujith

On a mundane level, instinctual reflexes to preserve and safe-guard our well-being and those we hold dear is pretty much the main activity in life…

I have wondered whether this instinct is what is being referred to by “craving for becoming” in the second Noble Truth.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca2/index.html

[Martin]

A question I have is “Who or what is being mindful”?

[Mat]

@Martin

“Who or what is being mindful"

A loud noise- gives rise to mindfulness…

OR

Intension, gives rise to mindfulness…

It is cause and effect, all of it is.

If we look inside we do no see a ‘I’ but we do see intention, or mindfulness arising… through cause and effect!

(we might look back at it and think I gave rise to intension or mindfulness- but this wont be seen to be true through direct observation if we looked at it when mindfulness was arising).

with metta

[laurence]

there is no essence

[Martin]

@Mat

If we look inside we do no see a ‘I’ but we do see intention, or mindfulness arising… through cause and effect!

So what is the cause of the intention to be mindful?

[SarathW1]

@Martin

So what is the cause of the intention to be mindful?

(For Samma Sati) By hearing the Dhaama from Buddha or his disciple,

[Mat]

@Martin

So what is the cause of the intention to be mindful?

Sound of the doorbell- intension to open the door
Hear one’s name - intension to look
No Self required; all that is required is Cause and Effect
Mindfulness is much more subtle.
Seeing the setting in which mindfulness is an appropriate reaction- intension to be mindful, leading to mindfulness, leading to concentration and so on and so forth.

With metta

[Gabriel]

Thanks a lot everyone for the contributions! While usually we discuss a lot the teachings and how things should be I’m glad you to took the time to feedback what actually still seems to be solid and is stubbornly resisting our quest of dis-identification.

Personally I took it more as letting each other know how it is experienced, not so much as a discussion - and I’m glad to have read so many diverse perspectives!

[Martin]

@Mat

Mindfulness is much more subtle.

Mindfulness seems to involve a conscious decision to pay attention to particular aspects of experience. But there is nobody making the decision?

[Mat]

@Martin

But there is nobody making the decision?

There is of course a body and a mind- yet close observation of those two don’t really reveal anything that we would consider as a Self - as in autonomous, self-extant, in control of itself, permanent, substantial (not insubstantial).

Watch whatever it is you think is making the decision to be mindful- now keep watching it over the next few minutes, if not hours.

with metta

[Martin]

@Mat

There is of course a body and a mind- yet close observation of those two don’t really reveal anything that we would consider as a Self - as in autonomous, self-extant, in control of itself, permanent, substantial (not insubstantial).

You seem to be talking about “soul-view” here rather than “self-view” - they are not the same. Negating a permanent soul or essence ( “soul-view” ) is clearly different from negating a shifting sense of self or “me” ( “self-view” ).

[Mat]

@Martin

You seem to be talking about “soul-view” here rather than “self-view” - they are not the same. Negating a permanent soul or essence ( “soul-view” ) is clearly different from negating a shifting sense of self or “me” ( “self-view” ).

The same standards apply to both.

‘I exist’ is as impossible as ‘Soul’ exists. The idea of an ‘I’ is flawed from its conception onwards. Like a ‘permanent’ sea-side sandcastle.

With metta

[Viveka]

[TheThinker]

My essence is of a conditioned nature of others words and meanings, based on what can best be described in others language as Vanity, upon investigation of ones reactiviity, perhaps one draws nearer to the conclusion of Darwins theory etc, but if one considers again that the words and conditionalities of others words are so strongly persuasive and our own a blank sheet yet unwritten and perhaps can’t be written and only experienced because the words are not-self just like our existence, then my essence becomes undescribable and meaningless to the conventional chaos that is life in others words