What is the Dhamma?

I am aware of the many different senses of the word ‘Dhamma’. What i am interested in, is the verse,

svākkhāto bhagavatā dhammo sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko opaneyyiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhīti.

How do you understand the meaning of ‘Dhamma’ in this verse?

For me the meaning of Budhanussati, Dhammanussati and Sanghanussanti are connected together,

Now a good report about that Master Gotama has circulated thus: ‘That Blessed One is an arahant, perfectly enlightened, accomplished in true knowledge and conduct, fortunate, knower of the world, unsurpassed leader of persons to be tamed, teacher of devas and humans, the Enlightened One, the Blessed One. Having realized by his own direct knowledge this world with its devas, Māra, and Brahmā, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, its devas and humans, he makes it known to others. He teaches a Dhamma that is good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, with the right meaning and phrasing; he reveals a spiritual life that is perfectly complete and pure.
AN5.30

For myself, in the context of the OP, Dhamma means, that which the Blessed One realised with direct knowledge (abhiññā sacchikatā). For lack of a better word in an abstract sense.

Furthermore, a noble disciple has experiential confidence in the teaching:
Puna caparaṃ, sāriputta, ariyasāvako dhamme aveccappasādena samannāgato hoti:

The teaching is well explained by the Buddha—visible in this very life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.’
‘svākkhāto bhagavatā dhammo sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko opaneyyiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhī’ti.

This is the second blissful meditation in the present life belonging to the higher mind, which they achieve in order to purify the unpurified mind and cleanse the unclean mind.
Ayamassa dutiyo ābhicetasiko diṭṭhadhammasukhavihāro adhigato hoti avisuddhassa cittassa visuddhiyā apariyodātassa cittassa pariyodapanāya.
AN5.179

It is the ‘pasāda’ one has for this Dhamma that cleanses the mind. I use the same sort of trick, when I have unskilfull thoughts about women. When I reflect upon my mother they usually dissappear.

The practice in the Vimuttāyatana Sutta (AN 5.26) is something different,

Furthermore, it may be that neither the Teacher nor … the mendicant teaches Dhamma … nor does the mendicant recite the teaching. But the mendicant thinks about and considers the teaching in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it. That mendicant feels inspired by the meaning and the teaching in that Dhamma, no matter how they think about and consider it in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it. Feeling inspired, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi. This is the fourth opportunity for freedom

In this case a particular teaching is reflected upon. It is when the meaning becomes clear that joy springs up etc.

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Dhamma is twofold:

  • saṅkhata - the noble eightfold path
  • asaṅkhata - fading away

as it’s explained in AN 4.34.

How this dhamma is visible is explained in strictly buddhist terms in SN 35.70.

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Friend, thanks for responding. The Buddha doesn’t mention Dependent Origination in this sutta you reference. Also, here the Buddha is exalting seeing impermanence as above all else. It seems that the Buddha exalts different principles in different contexts.

That said, in SN 56, Setting the Wheel of Dhamma in Motion, the Buddha seems to make clear the way to the final goal is the Eightfold Path:

"The Realized One woke up by understanding the middle way, which gives vision and knowledge, and leads to peace, direct knowledge, awakening, and extinguishment [Nibbana].

And what is that middle way? It is simply this noble eight-fold path, that is: right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion."

On the other hand, dependent origination seems to be included in the Four Noble Truths because in this and other suttas, the Buddha teaches about the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the path that leads to such cessation. The cessation of suffering seems to be the whole point of the teachings, including DO. So, it seems that DO is of course important, but it’s a part of the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. The simile of the elephant’s footprint Venerable @Akaliko mentions seems on point here.

Another way to look at is perhaps, yes, seeing dependent origination is important, but how does one see dependent origination? It looks like the answer to that question is by developing the Eight Fold Path, which includes developing insight into the Four Noble Truths.

with metta,

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This is explicitly stated in AN 3.61:

And what is the noble truth of the origin of suffering? Ignorance is a condition for choices. Choices are a condition for consciousness. Consciousness is a condition for name and form. Name and form are conditions for the six sense fields. The six sense fields are conditions for contact. Contact is a condition for feeling. Feeling is a condition for craving. Craving is a condition for grasping. Grasping is a condition for continued existence. Continued existence is a condition for rebirth. Rebirth is a condition for old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress to come to be. That is how this entire mass of suffering originates. This is called the noble truth of the origin of suffering.

And what is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering? When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases. When consciousness ceases, name and form cease. When name and form cease, the six sense fields cease. When the six sense fields cease, contact ceases. When contact ceases, feeling ceases. When feeling ceases, craving ceases. When craving ceases, grasping ceases. When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases. When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases. When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease. That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases. This is called the noble truth of the cessation of suffering.

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You are correct. The Buddha does not specifically mention DO in that Sutta. Even in SN 56.11 it is not specifically mentioned. But in SN 56.11, Venerable Koṇḍañña became an stream enterer after realizing that whatever is of a nature to arise is of a nature to cease.
“yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman”ti.
This understanding is not a simple understanding. It is realizing that suffering arises dependent on desire and when desire ceases suffering ceases. This is DO in the abstract.

Further, the doctrine of not-self is what the Buddha invented. This is because the idea of impermanence and suffering were already known to the Buddha’s contemporaries but the Buddha discovered that all conditioned phenomena were not only impermanent and suffering but they were also not-self.
The living being is a conditioned phenomena and he formulated DO in order to incorporate arising and ceasing of that phenomena of living being due to ignorance with the three characteristics - impermanence, suffering and not-self - implicit in it. This means the four noble truths are imbedded in DO rather than other way around. That is why DO is considered the quintessence of the teaching.

Udana 1 - 3 shows how the Buddha contemplated DO in three ways.
With Metta

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Interesting. With the original question, I was looking for additional qualities of the dhamma to contemplate; this helps.

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While we may not be in agreement about what is the quintessence of the Dhamma, I do appreciate your points because it has helped me take a closer look at the Four Noble Truths and Dependent Origination. I’ve tended to think about DO in terms of the long causal links set forth in some suttas (I think there may be 13).

However, I now see that DO can be seen in the Four Noble Truths, which makes DO more accessible. My working understanding is now something like there is suffering and there is the origin of suffering, which is desire. Which is another way of saying the arising of suffering is dependent upon desire. Thus, if desire ceases, suffering ceases.

That said, we’re back to the question of, “how does desire cease?” The cessation of desire is dependent upon the Eight Fold Path. The Eightfold Path, as part of the 4 Noble Truths, seems to be the most important part of the teaching because it is something we have some influence over, and it’s full development is the “origin” of the cessation of suffering.

Didn’t the Buddha say something like, “all I teach is the cessation of suffering.”

So, thank you for the dialogue!

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I think the suttas give the teachings a visible form. A construct becomes visible not only through what left in, but equally through whats left out. Because the teachings are well spoken, they describe the world precisely. What cannot be spoken about clearly is not in the world hence the wise remains silent about it.

Ignorance is the root cause of desire. Although the N8FP is the path, one takes the path only when they understand that desire is the cause of suffering. Would you take the path if you are not convinced that desire is the cause? I do not think so.
So if you go back from desire in the 12 link sequence of DO, you end up at ignorance.
I am not going to explain anything else further unless you ask because I get the feeling from the way you have ended your post that you no longer wish to continue to exchange ideas.
I am happy that at least you were able to take a closer look at 4NTs and DO.
With Metta

Sadhu. For me, Nibbana and, to a degree, anatta fall into this category.

Yes, I just get the sense we’re splitting semantic hairs at this juncture. Thanks again, though.
With metta,

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Which brings us to a different way of thinking about the 4NTs:

1NT: reflection
2NT: causality
3NT: immediacy
4NT: action

True, ignorance, also translated as “not knowing”, seems to be the root cause of suffering and the beginning of DO. But, can it be said that, the origin of the cessation of ignorance and the arising of its opposite “knowing” is the Noble Eight-fold Path? In other words, knowledge and the cessation of ignorance seem to be dependent upon and originate from the development of the N8FP?

I bring this up not to debate over what is the “quintessence” of the Buddha’s teaching, but because this seems like an interesting and perhaps useful way to look at the relationships between ignorance, suffering, DO, and the N8FP.
with metta,

Hi Brooke,

Getting back to your request for words of scripture for reflections on the Dhamma, what I find inspiring for swift uplift is this quote of the Buddha in bold:

https://suttacentral.net/dn2/en/sujato#39.8

Consider when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those who wish to train, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed. He has realized with his own insight this world—with its gods, Māras and Brahmās, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, gods and humans—and he makes it known to others. He teaches Dhamma that’s good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased. And he reveals a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure.*

…Except that the words I memorized from Thai Forest tradition chanting are “beautiful in the beginning, beautiful in the middle, beautiful in the end.” Makes me smile to just read it here.

  • This is Ven Bodhi’s translation despite the citation to Bhante Sujato. My device is malfunctioning, not allowing me to re-open Bhante Sujato’s translation, or get the link directly to the quoted text. [Edit: It’s from DN2 Fruits of the Holy Life]
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Thank you, Venerable. I, too, use Dhamma is good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end and find it very helpful. I’ll add though, a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure. Ven Bodhi translates this as: he reveals the holy life that is fully complete and purified.

I think I may prefer a hybrid:-): the holy life that if fully complete and pure.
with metta,

Perhaps it might be useful to consider things from a different angle.

There is reality - the natural process of existence.

The understanding of this reality as it really is, is obscured due to defilements > Ignorance/Delusion, that causes beings to view things from the perspective of a Self.

The 4 Noble truths and D.O. describe the situation and it’s process of perpetuation. The Noble 8 fold Path describes the way to influence this process, ultimately with the aim to stop perpetuation of re-birth.

All of the Buddhas teachings are describing aspects of this situation, Suffering/existence, the causes for suffering arising and ceasing, and how the process works. They are all inter-related and coming from a variety of angles and perspectives. I think of all the teachings as ‘fractal’ in nature…

This is such a great gift, as there are many individual pathways within the body of teachings, but they are all ‘leading’ or ‘pointing’ tothe same thing :slight_smile:

IMHO - THIS is the Dhamma

Added: :rofl: I had withdrawn/hidden this post after writting it, as I realised it wasn’t directly addressing the OP, but given that @Christopher gave it a ‘like’ even in it’s hidden state, I’ve reinstated it, just in case it is useful anyway… Cheers :smile:

With much Metta

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Indeed.

How can it be? As I said earlier in a post, N8FP is the rational alternative to anyone who understands the 4NTs which are in the DO. This is opening of the Dhamma eye like seeing light at the end of the tunnel but N8FP is needed to get to the light. In other words one understands that they are suffering because of the notion of self they have wrongly assumed. Understanding DO therefore means that there is no such self but mere suffering which arises on dependence on causes continues from birth to birth. This continuation is Saṃsāra.
Desire is conditioned by feeling. It is the notion of self that makes one to desire. This is because the self identified needs to be pleased by getting or distancing whatever that gives pleasant or unpleasant feeling to the “self”.
Hence, understanding DO is the key to practice N8FP.

If you insist that it is the 4NTs that need to be understood because ignorance is the not understanding it, may I ask how you plan to get rid of the notion of self which binds us to Saṃsāra?

If you continue to discuss I am sure you will understand it without anyone forcing you. The simile of the rain water finding their way to the great ocean comes to my mind. (AN 10.61)
With Metta

I appreciate all well-spoken Dhamma, whether hidden or exposed! :bowing_man:t2:

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Sadhu.

Thanks! It was useful and addressed the question of what is Dhamma:-)
with metta,

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