What is the difference between devotion and submission?

[Sikkhakamo]

Hello everyone,

What is the difference between devotion and submission ?

Thank you for any reflection you can share

[Dogen]

To me, Kesama Sutta is a good guideline in this regard:

AN 3.65
Please, Kālāmas, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’

But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering’, then you should give them up.

There are two dimensions of interaction - first you choose whether something is worth paying attention to or not, and if it’s worth paying attention to, whether the contents of it are true or not.

One can be devoted to the scriptures and be still skeptical - there’s a ton of scholars of Buddhism who are not buddhists, for example. These people obviously think there’s something worthwhile in Buddhism to pay attention to it, while not confessing a blind faith in everything they see & read.

And then you can be a dogmatic follower, taking everything without question, submitting to words and masters.

Perhaps that could mark the distinction you’re seeking.

[Jasudho]

@Sikkhakamo

What is the difference between devotion and submission ?

Devotion, I’d say, is by choice and happy intention.
Submission is by coercion and sometimes group-think.

Depending on the definitions being used for these words, there could be forms of submission which are by choice, such as submitting to the Precepts and to the other forms of Dhamma practice.
But again, this would be done by one’s intention as one would know the benefits.

Unfortunately, submission in the strong sense of coerciveness is rampant in many political systems and in some religious ones as well.
“Do as you’re told. Don’t question. Don’t discuss. Shut up. Obey.”

On the other hand, devotion is buoyant, an uplifted state of the heart, and increases our dedication to a cause or practice we find meaningful, beautiful, and beneficial.

Just saying…