Based on your experience, what is the difference between the 4 jhanas and the 4 brahma viharas? I believe there will be a logical, scientific explanation for the fundamental difference between these two types of meditation.
1 Like
DN 26
And what is long life for a mendicant? It’s when a mendicant develops the basis of psychic power that has immersion due to enthusiasm, and active effort. They develop the basis of psychic power that has immersion due to energy, and active effort. They develop the basis of psychic power that has immersion due to mental development, and active effort. They develop the basis of psychic power that has immersion due to inquiry, and active effort. Having developed and cultivated these four bases of psychic power they may, if they wish, live for the proper lifespan or what’s left of it. This is long life for a mendicant.
And what is beauty for a mendicant? It’s when a mendicant is ethical, restrained in the monastic code, conducting themselves well and seeking alms in suitable places. Seeing danger in the slightest fault, they keep the rules they’ve undertaken. This is beauty for a mendicant.
And what is happiness for a mendicant? It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. As the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption … third absorption … fourth absorption. This is happiness for a mendicant.
And what is wealth for a mendicant? It’s when a monk meditates spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. They meditate spreading a heart full of compassion … rejoicing … equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. This is wealth for a mendicant.
And what is power for a mendicant? It’s when a mendicant realizes the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. And they live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. This is power for a mendicant.
As the passage just cited from DN 26 indicates, one can see the ascending stages of a bhikkhu’s practice: from youth to beauty, from beauty to happiness, from happiness to wealth, and from wealth to power.
It is evident that the two aforementioned types of meditation are different.
(My comment is written in Vietnamese and translated into English with the help of GPT-4, as I am not very proficient in English.)
2 Likes
MN 13 suggests that the jhana states are states with pleasant sensations (neither harming oneself nor others). Combined with DN 26, it can be seen that these pleasant sensations are indeed happiness for a bhikkhu.
The remaining issue is to distinguish between wealth and happiness, and then it will be complete. What do you think is the fundamental difference between wealth and happiness?
Just a gentle reminder that any discussion should stay away from descriptions of personal practice and experience, as per the guidelines.
Regards,
suaimhneas (on behalf of the moderators)
3.2 Please do not:
personally
…
- reveal your personal practice, personal medical issues, or personal problems
- offer direct personal medical, spiritual, or psychological advice to anyone
- claim any spiritual attainments or psychic powers
2 Likes
The brahma-viharas are meditation subjects, while the jhanas are levels of tranquility. The former are limited in the degree of the latter:
" he enters & remains in the sphere of the infinitude of space. I tell you, monks, awareness-release through compassion has the sphere of the infinitude of space as its excellence — in the case of one who has penetrated to no higher release. [3]"
—Samyutta Nikaya 46.54
Moral qualities have the property of expansion of mind, and this should be identified in practice. This includes “the beautiful” which is the highest development of non ill-will, provided mind discipline has been previously developed.
“If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of what is not loathsome. If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of what is loathsome. If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of what is not loathsome & what is. If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not. If he wants — in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not — cutting himself off from both, he remains equanimous, alert, & mindful.”
This advanced mental discipline begins with the tactics described in Majjhima Nikaya 20.
1 Like
and also states of mind and heart. 
1 Like
Can you find a simile for this?
I still don’t understand the difference between happiness and wealth here, and how it relates to your answer. I would be very happy to hear more.
The brahma-viharas are moral subjects, concentration can be right or wrong depending on subject, so it is a vehicle, the subject being driver. Neither the jhanas nor the brahma-viharas on their own can lead to total release. In Majjhima Nikaya 97 the Buddha describes the brahma-viharas as “inferior” (to insight). But they are indispensable assistance as social attitudes to insight.
It’s possible that wanderers of other religions might say, ‘How many fruits and benefits may be expected by those who live indulging in pleasure in these four ways?’ You should say to them, ‘Four benefits may be expected by those who live indulging in pleasure in these four ways. What four?
Firstly, with the ending of three fetters a mendicant becomes a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening. This is the first fruit and benefit.
Furthermore, a mendicant—with the ending of three fetters, and the weakening of greed, hate, and delusion—becomes a once-returner. They come back to this world once only, then make an end of suffering. This is the second fruit and benefit.
Furthermore, with the ending of the five lower fetters, a mendicant is reborn spontaneously and will become extinguished there, not liable to return from that world. This is the third fruit and benefit.
Furthermore, a mendicant realizes the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and lives having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. This is the fourth fruit and benefit.
These four benefits may be expected by those who live indulging in pleasure in these four ways.’
DN 29
In my opinion, the Eightfold Path can lead to complete liberation, and the 4 jhanas are the pinnacle of the Eightfold Path. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that a person who has mastered the jhanas but has not attained one of the eight fruits of practice is accurate.
So I don’t agree with your point.
Yes they give rise to tranquility. Also good will is a state of heart:
" I tell you, monks, awareness-release through good will has the beautiful as its excellence — in the case of one who has penetrated to no higher release. [2]"
—Samyutta Nikaya 46.54
1 Like