What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?

Q & A
21

Ven Abaya give some reference to prove that Anatta does not mean Anathma. (not self)

First he uses Pati Magga 1 - Mahavagga nana katha. (I can’t find this in Sutta Central)
There it say Anatta means Asara (fruitless)

Then he uses AN6 Atta sutta. (I can’t find them in Sutta central)

Ther he says Anatta means Mitya Noble Eightfold Path and Atta means Samma Noble Eightfold Path.
We use a Sinhalese word “Artha” (useful) if we say no “Artha” means useless.
Ven Abhay said that the word for impermanence in Pali is (Aduvan) He used Bakha Brahama sutta to support his claim.

22

Ven Abhaya gives another reason to support that not all impermanent things are Dukkha. When you sick if it changes to a cure it is a happiness. He takes the example from Culavedalla Sutta.

“Pleasant feeling, friend Visākha, is pleasant when it persists, unpleasant when it changes, an unpleasant feeling is unpleasant when it persists, pleasant when it changes, neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant feeling is pleasant when known, and unpleasant when unknown.”

23

He also argues that the view of Anatta (not self or no self) is a kind of wrong views. He uses Sabbasava Sutta to support his claim.

"As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self…

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.002.than.html

24

Here he says “Sabbe Sankhara; Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta”
Strange enough he did not say “Sabbe Dhamma Anatta”

25

It is precisely because there is such a state without sickness that sickness becomes Dukkha.

These are considered wrong view because they both assume the existence of an “I” for whom there is or is not a self.

26

I couldn’t find that…where did you see it ?

I found this though:

“There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned.” ud8.3

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.8.03.than.html

The born, become, produced,
made, fabricated, impermanent,
fabricated of aging & death,
a nest of illnesses, perishing,
come-into-being through nourishment
and the guide [that is craving] —
is unfit for delight.

The escape from that
is calm, permanent,
a sphere beyond conjecture,
unborn, unproduced,
the sorrowless, stainless state,
the cessation of stressful qualities,
stilling-of-fabrications bliss.

Also: Itivuttaka: The Group of Twos

27

It is in the link I provided.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

28

The text you qoute is NOT in the sutta you linked. .:worried:

29

Sorry, Dao.
I twisted (changed) the Sutta to demonstrate how some people misrepresent Buddha.

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30

But why? I thought you were endorsing Ven Abhaya’s views.

31

Ah yes. I see your point now. It does happen.

32

I think you can become confused listening to Ven Abhaya. He has some interesting opinions about the dhamma but some of them cannot be supported according to the dhamma-vinaya- as can be seen above. His understanding of pali is mixed with Sinhala. For example Ariya (noble) is understood as ‘A’-‘riya’, ‘non’-‘vehicle’ (Sinhala meaning of the term ‘riya’). He then comes up with a theory of how that translation is accurate according to his understanding. I must also say that however he is 95% accurate, so it is not all bad. The difficulty is finding which bit is the 5% :confused:.

with metta

4 Likes
33

@Mat . I did not say that! Will you please stop attributing quotes to me that I did not say… This is the second time you have done it. Please stop. With respect. :anjal:

p.s. I’m not at all offended or angry. Just please see your error and stop it, as this is the second time. You did it in another thread as well. . :slight_smile:

1 Like
34

Oh sorry- I quoted you, quoting SarathW1! Hmm need more sati as to where I quote from!

2 Likes
35

There is a good Dhamma discussion in Dhamma Wheel about this topic.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26749&start=40#p421520

1 Like
36

No. I am not endorsing Ven. Abhaya’s view. I just want to demonstrate how people can play with words to prove their point.