Just an interesting sutta about jhānas and ‘eggshell’, given by Ananda with Buddha’s approval:
MN 53
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Just a quick poll
So what’s jhana ?
- you can still hear sound there
- you can’t hear sound there
- you can do vippassana there
- you can’t do vippassana there
- It is not needed to attain nibbana
- It is needed to attain nibbana
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I found another argument here you said experience about jhana is more important than Pali mastery but ajahn chah said that during jhana you can still hear sound now it’s ajahn chah who taught jhana to ajahn brahm so obviously there’s misunderstanding here between the student and the teacher, what do you think ?
Hi Ratana,
If I recall correctly from his talks, Ajahn Brahm developed his meditation extensively on retreats in the UK before he ordained. Many of Ajahn Chah’s students, including Ajahn Brahm, ordained with other teachers before meeting Ajahn Chah.
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The easiest patch I can think of is that there’s different levels of mastery of 1st Jhana. Just as the Buddha said that sound is a thorn for 1st Jhana. It means it’s possible to get someone out of 1st Jhana if the sound is loud/disturbing enough.
That maybe the level of less mastery of Jhana, whereas the full mastery maybe that the phenomenon of being so engrossed in the object like watching TV, that one doesn’t notice the sound outside, the TV border disappears. Could be too that you’re so engrossed in watching TV, that the sound of the door of your room open and close, you are aware of it only at the edge of your awareness, and then it disappeared.
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Now another question arises why did he choose to ordain with ajahn chah if he thought that he mastered the jhanas better than ajahn chah ?
I recommend you to not simply project your versions of Ajahn Brahm and Ajahn Chah backwards in time from what you read of them now.
Do read and listen to both of their talks etc, get enough data, you’ll see no contradictions.
Ajahn Brahm just prefers to focus on Jhanas via the relaxing pathway. Ajahn Chah is more of a lifestyle coach.
Also, people grow in the Dhamma you know. You’re projecting the current Ajahn Brahm to his super young days.
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Where did he, or I, say that? My impression from meeting and/or listening to talks from various students of Ajahn Chah was that he didn’t teach an “Ajahn Chah meditation method”. It appears that he encouraged his students to work out what would work best for them. And of course, that applies to many good teachers in many areas.
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Regardless what qualifying name for it, a dividing factor is -
the 5 rupa sense spheres shut down creates and eliminates conditions for specific contemplation theme.
when shut down, contemplating mind/heart in perception level comes into possibility. But contemplation on rupa body loses its possibility.
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