I’m studying the Arahanta-sutta in its Pali version. I’ve a doubt about the translation of “ahaṃ vadāmītipi so vadeyya” and “mamaṃ vadantītipi so vadeyyā”. I know that ahaṃ means “I”, vadeyya means “could speak” and mamaṃ means “me”. But what’s the literally meaning of “vadāmītipi” and “vadantītipi”? I searched in the dictionary, but I didn’t find nothing.
Hi, it’s the verb ‘vadati’, “to speak, say, or tell”
1st per singular and 3rd per plural, present indicative.
The final vowel is lengthened before the ‘ti’ ( end quote marker ‘iti’), and the ‘pi’ has the sense of “also, too”. (‘api’)
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So, the meaning of “ahaṃ vadāmītipi” is “I speak” and “mamaṃ vadantītipi” means “they speak to me”? How could I insert the sense of “api” in the translation? Thank you in advance.
Yes.
The ‘pi’ has the sense of ‘also’.
Without looking at the context, perhaps something like “I also say”?
How is it rendered it the translation you are using?
May I ask which grammar book you are using?
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I’m reading the translations of Bodhi and Sujato: SuttaCentral.
The grammar book I’m using is this: http://www.tathagata.org/sites/default/files/Pali_Primer-LilyDeSilva.pdf. Do you think it’s good for starting? I’m currently searching for something of easy and then move on to something more challenging.
I’m just a beginner, so I have doubts even about simple things like the ones I asked you about.
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I think the DeSilva Primer is an excellent place to start (the first half), particularly if one is not experienced in highly inflected languages.
I usually recommend DeSilva — Gair & Karunatillake — Ven. Bodhi’s Pali reader.
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Best wishes for your Pali studies.
Perhaps these videos will be helpful.
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It’s worth considering relying on individual words for interpreting the suttas is not recommended as it doesn’t encourage the expansive thinking conducive to meditation (example: Majhima Nikaya 121, emptiness begins with expanding space). The Buddha’s stated method is comparison of one sutta with another on the basis of meaning, and in Majhima Nikaya 95 advises a beginner on this. The matrix of word association is to be abandoned as the cause of conventional reality, so is not advisable as a means to develop understandings.
Relevant suttas on the theme of ‘word’ and ‘separation of the All’ : Samyutta Nikaya 1.61, Samyutta Nikaya 35.80
Theme of non-objectification:
“Sariputta assigned the eight thoughts of a great man for Anuruddha to use as a meditation topic. Journeying into the Pacinavamsadaya in the Ceti country to practice, he was able to master seven, but could not learn the eighth, which Buddha taught him. Anuruddha developed insight and then realized arahantship.”—Wikipedia
The eighth contemplation:
"‘This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.’ Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk’s mind leaps up, grows confident, steadfast, & is firm in the cessation of objectification. ‘This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.’ —Anguttara Nikaya 8.30
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I’d like to recommend @stephen’s Intro to Pali recordings. They bridge the step between de Silva and G & K very nicely.
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There is sandhi between words that you will need to undo before you can clearly see the individual words in the sentence. After sandhi split, the words are “ahaṃ vadāmi iti api so vadeyya” [he might (even) say “I speak”] and “mamaṃ vadanti iti api so vadeyya” [he might even say “they speak to me”]. The word pi is ‘api’ in sandhi and not a distict/different word, so when you’ve split the sandhi, you will need to write it in its full-form as api.