When to truly see any kind of consciousness at all?(Sutta)

Dear Monastics and Dhamma friends,

When is this? In meditating only or also while doing daily chores.

Please give me a better explanation. I want to make sure I understand.

Thank you very much :pray:t4:

Does this explanation help:

The wanderer Susı̄ma fraudulently enters the Sangha so that the wanderers can learn the secret to the Buddha’s fame and success. Hearing that some mendicants claimed to be perfected, Susīma approaches and asks them if they have developed psychic powers or the formless states, to which they say no. Perplexed, he asks the Buddha, who explains that awakening follows insight into the principles of impermanence and causality. Eventually Susı̄ma confesses his misdeed.
SuttaCentral.

It doesn’t apply to the difference between meditating and doing chores, it seems. It seems to say that if we wish to awaken we have to work hard to gain knowledge of anicca, anatta, dukha and dependent origination.

Wiser people may be able to explain better than I can. :slight_smile:

I meant an example how to do this.

You should truly see any kind of consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: all consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

Like does that mean like when you are conscious of something? Or when you remember something? Or Like the example Buddha gave being mindful when stretching, bending etc?

In my understanding when your conscious of something that’s what’s it’s talking about

But maybe I’m wrong

For example if you suddenly see flower. When you consciously now what emotion there is towards the flower. That’s when you have to make reflection?

Susīma, first comes knowledge of the stability of natural principles. Afterwards there is knowledge of extinguishment.

Gillian is spot on!
At the risk of being a bit too explicit (warning : NSFW content!) I will try to explain with a hypothetical example of HOW a practice based on this sutta might play out in real life.


We will take the Anatta door for this purpose, since that is what is hinted at as the tendency of your mind by the words you have used. (One could also use the Anicca door or the Dukkha door… but if your mind had a tendency to those, it would have worded your example differently!)
The problem here in achieving insight is that idea of “You”… ie. the observer.
To bring the Mind at rest, it is assumed that Sila has been followed in the few hours shortly prior, hence there is no underlying distraction. Practicing a bit of Anapanasati, one can calm the Mind down further. Of course, first Jhana would be ideal, but Upacara samadhi is also good enough.
Now the Mind is turned towards reflection of the statement made.

Who is this you?
What is a flower?
‘Who’ is ‘seeing’ ‘what’ and ‘how’?
The matter is deeply examined keeping dependent origination and the various suttas such as the advice given to Ven Bahiya (Ud 1.10 SN47.15 & SN35.89) in mind.

So there is simply Form making Contact with Sense organ, giving rise to a Feeling tone which can be pleasant/painful/neutral.
Every remaining aspect is simply a process function of the Mind… there is the process of Sanna giving rise to idea of colour, smell etc the process of Sankhara giving rise to the idea of “flower” and the process of Conciousness by which there is awareness of all these process functions and their results.
There is no ME there … just the varying process of Conciousness observing the varying processes of cognition of form.

Go deeper…
Is that form called flower really apart from the form called you?
What if it is eaten?
At what stage does ‘flower’ stop and get assimilated into ‘Me’?
What about when I excrete and a flower grows out of the waste?
Is it not all just a process of form forever changing from one agglomeration to another (like water from one whirlpool to another), with no real distinction apart from the arbitary lines drawn by my Mind?
So form is Anatta…it is also Anicca… seeing it as ‘mine’ is just asking for Dukkha.
Rinse and Repeat for all the other 5 aggregates in a similar way.

Once such a meditation is done regularly, daily life changes…

One begins to spontaneously observe the processes of the 5 aggregates doing their thing again and again at the oddest moments in daily life.
Of course, most times one is still embodied as ME.
But at many times there is no Me, only the changing processes being observed. And, with repeated such efforts in meditation, these times begin to predominate in everyday life.
This leads to disillusionment…all the way upto seeing through everything once and for all, letting it all go… Nibbana.


STATUTORY WARNING: THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE TO HELP UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION OF ‘HOW’. IT IS NOT AN INVITATION TO PRACTICE NOR DOES IT CONSTITUTE ANY ADVICE TO PRACTICE IN ANY PARTICULAR WAY. MEDITATION CAN BE DANGEROUS IF USED UNWISELY. ALWAYS CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL MEDITATION TEACHER BEFORE EMBARKING ON A PARTICULAR PRACTICE.
:pray: :smiley: :pray:

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In truth I was just confirming I understand. I think your explanation sounded familiar to my ears. I learned some new skills. So thank you. :pray:t4:

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