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Which is the sutta where ... the brahma could not answer a question and sent the asker to the buddha instead?

Recently I came across a sutta, where a monk looks for the answer of something like: “where is it/what is is when all the fixed materials are gone?” - like stone or so.
He was advised to ask this the devas, and so he went through the various realms of the various type of gods, but they all could not help him - but sent him one more realm a level higher(?). Finally he arrived at the “Brahma”. When he asked him the question, two times the Brahma answers only how he is the highest god, and finally says, that even he does not know. Hinting the monk to approach the buddha, he should know the answer.
Which indeed happend to be so…

I think I remember we had the link to that sutta recently here but I couldn’t manage to find it.

Thanks in advance for any help/hints/reference… :dharmawheel:

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Maybe this (DN11)?

Once it so happened, Kevaddha, that a mendicant in this very Saṅgha had the following thought, ‘Where do these four primary elements cease without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?’

Then that mendicant attained a state of immersion such that a path to the gods appeared. Then he approached the Gods of the Four Great Kings and said, ‘Reverends, where do these four primary elements cease without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?’

When he said this, those gods said to him, ‘Mendicant, we too do not know this. But the Four Great Kings are our superiors. They might know.’

Then he approached the Four Great Kings and asked the same question. But they also said to him, ‘Mendicant, we too do not know this. But the gods of the Thirty-Three … Sakka, lord of gods … the gods of Yāmā … the god named Suyāma … the Joyful gods … the god named Santussita … the gods who delight in creation … the god named Sunimmita … the gods who control the creation of others … the god named Vasavattī … the gods of Brahmā’s Host. They might know.’

Then that mendicant attained a state of immersion such that a path to Brahmā appeared. Then he approached those gods and said, ‘Reverends, where do these four primary elements cease without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?’ But they also said to him, ‘Mendicant, we too do not know this. But there is Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. He is our superior. He might know.’

‘But reverends, where is that Brahmā now?’ ‘We also don’t know where he is or what way he lies. But by the signs that are seen—light arising and radiance appearing—we know that Brahmā will appear. For this is the precursor for the appearance of Brahmā, namely light arising and radiance appearing.’ Not long afterwards, the Great Brahmā appeared.

Then that mendicant approached the Great Brahmā and said to him, ‘Reverend, where do these four primary elements cease without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?’ The Great Brahmā said to him, ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born.’

For a second time, that mendicant said to the Great Brahmā, ‘Reverend, I am not asking you whether you are Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. I am asking where these four primary elements cease without anything left over.’

For a second time, the Great Brahmā said to him, ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born.’ For a third time, that mendicant said to the Great Brahmā, ‘Reverend, I am not asking you whether you are Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. I am asking where these four primary elements cease without anything left over.’

Then the Great Brahmā took that mendicant by the arm, led him off to one side, and said to him, ‘Mendicant, these gods think that there is nothing at all that I don’t know and see and understand and realize. That’s why I didn’t answer in front of them. But I too do not know where these four primary elements cease with nothing left over. Therefore, mendicant, the misdeed is yours alone, the mistake is yours alone, in that you passed over the Buddha and searched elsewhere for an answer to this question. Mendicant, go to the Buddha and ask him this question. You should remember it in line with his answer.’

Then that mendicant, as easily as a strong person would extend or contract their arm, vanished from the Brahmā realm and reappeared in front of me. Then he bowed, sat down to one side, and said to me, ‘Sir, where do these four primary elements cease without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?’"
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Perfect. This is it! Thank you!

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Thanks for the good question! :smiley:

With Metta