Who reincarnated and who cling to Five Aggregates

What reincarnated and what that cling to Five Aggregates? is there a being that cling to Five Aggregates?

In the Buddhist sense, things just kind of carry over to the next life. There is no “who.”

Best wishes.

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I have heard of an analogy that describes one candle lighting another, and reincarnation being like the continuation of that flame. However, I still find it difficult to fully grasp the concept through this metaphor.

There is nothing wrong about the concept of reincarnation, as long as we remember that it is made in the presence of ignorance. And due to ignorance any puthujjana considers himself as a person - sakkaya. Sakkayadithi may be defined as self-image, some positive descriptions provided to answer the question “who are you?”

So as long as you have self-image of yourself you will continue to have it. Ignorance is a mental structure and it survives the death of the body. While your self-image undoubtedly will be different, the basic structure of ignorance with the two levels pre-reflective -conceit I am- and reflective -sakkayaditthi - will be intact.

The last fetter is ignorance. So you’re setting the bar high for those who preached other Dhammas to non-Arhats.

:pray:

I still not fully get it, what are the “things” you mentioned? The cause of reincarnation is craving right? then who cling to craving and who reach nirvana?

Thinking in terms of who, one tends to create a story out of nothing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/dupv3v/not_self_emptiness_using_the_example_of_a_company/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

See the company analogy above. Let’s map that a company moving to another country as the rebirth of that company. What is actually moved from one country to another? And is it universal? Sometimes the CEO remains the same, sometimes, only certain staff remains the same. Sometimes, the name changes too. There’s no solid core of the company which transfers, but continuity can be traced. Similarly, whatever it is that transfers from life to life, sometimes, personality, sometimes memories, each of them are impermanent, not self.

There’s no thing which you can point to me and say, that’s the company. The site of the company can be changed to another company. The CEO can change, the name can change, the business model can change. Etc. There’s no core, soul of the company. But just a label for these things to work together. Same thing for the self an 5 aggregates.

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The answer to this question is the final goal of the spiritual life, isn’t it? :grin:


PS : Try the Siri analogy and see if it fits.

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Aren’t 5 aggregates just a label for various combinations of atoms i.e. 5 aggregates actually don’t exist?

Mind is not made of atoms. And not all forms are made of atoms, some subatomic particles are not part of atoms. And there’s radiation, spacetime, fields, etc.

For exist or not exist, just ask yourself if you can know what feelings do you have now? You can know. That’s good enough. There’s feelings is known by direct knowledge.

But isn’t mind reducable to microscopic mind moments thus making the consciousness aggregate a mere label?

label or not, there’s a mind that much can be know by direct knowledge. Perhaps you should consult this complicated discussion we had. Truly Exist, dependently exist, dependently ceased, truly not existing

And Who let go of Five Aggregates? Who reach Nirvana? Who having ignorant? (Avidya)

Perhaps you get it more if you’re asked counter questions. Who’s making the decision when you type into an AI bot some question, who inside that AI bot decides how to answer it?

When I take apart the AI code that makes up the AI, who gets destroyed? Is there an AI soul in there somewhere?

But not like AI, we will transmigrating when the current 5 aggregates died, to another working 5 Aggregates (If we still have craving of course)

Then look to the mechanism for rebirth: dependent origination. And see which link is the self.

The closest is the delusion of self: ignorance, conceit and self view. But they too are impermanent, dukkha and thus not self. But having the delusion of self drives rebirth.

And who is being ignorant of 4 Noble Truth, which causing into think that 5 aggregates is self, that’s also making me wondered if there was something that come before 5 aggregates and is higher than 5 aggregates, also when Buddha teaches about meditation he taught us to observe the arising and ceasing of 5 Aggregates, and normally when we observing the arising and ceasing of 4 Aggregates, we use Vijnana and then Buddha also teach us to observe the arising and ceasing of Vijnana too, so I was wondering on who observe Vijnana?

Present Consciousness observes past consciousness to arise and cease as memory. But the act of observing already involves attention (volitional formations), and perception.

The dependent origination is 3 lifetimes model, the ignorance already have 5 aggregates to house it. Basically I think it should be in the volitional formations aggregate (moha as listed in the Abhidhamma).

There’s no who, it’s just a bunch of processes mutually generating each other and self sustaining and propagating. Much like a meme.

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are taking about.

Regarding ignorance, in department arising it is defined as not-knowledge of the Four Noble Truths. It is ignorance on reflective level, and this indeed must be abandoned, in order to teach Dhamma successfully.
If by non-arahats you mean sekkha, they don’t need to be taught, they are independent.

Again you can do it, nobody else. But in order to do so you must abandon idea that you are person, living in the world. Speaking metaphysically you are asankhata dhatu, but you don’t know it. Or in another version: asankhata dhatu is what remains when you realise nibbana the cessation of being now and here.