That sounds like busybodies and gossip to me, but that is just because I am a skeptical jaded fool.
If they were really trying to keep it a secret, would you have ever learned of it?
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ok, thank you for your reply 
I like this reference to sophists, since it is along the lines fo what I was reflecting upon. My understanding of sophists is that they were not interested in truth but in personal, selfish gain.
In contrast, Socrates, who was married, and according to Plato outdrank everyone at parties and slept with boys (see the Symposium for example) had integrity (and immense intelligence), and as such he was revered - because of his mind which was apparent in his teachings, not because of his sexual habits or of the robe he was wearing.
This makes sense to me - respecting and revering a brilliant mind, which becomes apparent in the teachings that emanate from it. In contrast, I have heard on several occasions monks speak (at monasteries or sometimes on Youtube) and what they said made very little sense to me and didnât seem brilliant at all. Yet I have seen people react to what they said as if they had revealed something incredibly wise. Perhaps this just shows my limitations and my inability to grasp the Dhamma; however I have sometimes made this mental exercise: I imagined this situation: the person who spoke was not dressed in robes but was dressed as a layman and had a not cut his hair, he was making exactly the same speech, but wearing a tie say. Would people listen to his speech and appreciate it in the same way? Something worth reflecting upon, I believe.
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yes thatâs a good point. I had stayed for a few days so I got to know some lay people facilitating retreats etc; one of the things they kept saying is that things often were not as they seemed (which led me to reflect on the importance of appearances and projecting an image); they alluded to this story and other disagreeable things but perhaps like you say itâs just gossip, who knows.
Another thing they said was that a monk disrobed after about 20 years and went to live with a partner - which led me to reflect that for all those 20 years he hadnât eliminated his sensuality, so that he might have suffered because of it for all those years. Anyway, I mentioned that only because someone asked me a specific question above, please do not pay too much attention to it because I completely agree that gossip is not a good thing.
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I would not say it is certain he suffered.
Many people take long retreats and after that come back to the world to return to the pursuit of sensual pleasures as everyone else.
I am pretty confident they will say that while in retreat they had a good time. One thing does not negate the other.
At least thatâs my case when I take retreats and âcome back in the worldâ - while in temporary celibacy and usual restrictions to comforts and number of meals I have a good time, as I focus my time around listening and reflecting on the dhamma.
When I am back into my usual lay person routine, working weekdays and having leisure time in weekends I also have a good time, as I enjoy what I do and I have a number of satisfying hobbies to attend to in my spare time.
If you ask me when I feel my good time is the most wholesome Iâll tell you it is definitely when I am in retreats.
It is evident to me that the inner pleasure that comes from a simpler and quieter routine of contemplation is far more reliable than the outer pleasures my lay livelihood is all about.
If you ask me then why I still come back to my lay life, than I can only but blame Mara! 
hehe
But jokes apart, I try to make an effort to make every day a day closer to the point in which I will give the right livelihood of contemplatives a real try. If I will get there in this lifetime I cannot tell! 
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If the individual wearing a tie talks about things like how he as a lay person practices the eightfold path, within the limitations of his livelihood, then I will listen to it and see if it makes sense.
If the individual wearing a tie talks about things like renunciation of acquisitions and sensual pleasures deep stillness etc I may still listen to it but with a much more skeptical mind.
If both ask me to pay to listen to what they say, directly or indirectly, I will just ignore them. All in all I can read for free and reflect myself on what the big guy wearing robes said about awakening
and the way to it 2,500 years ago simply by checking www.SuttaCentral.net at any time !
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This being the discussion forum for Sutta Central (SC) and it being helpful for training and discussion to view excerpts in their context, as well as the original and alternate translations, I thought I might contribute to this thread by supplying links to SC for these posted excerpts that reference the canon in other ways. I am having some difficulty locating the SC text associated with your references.
- I donât know what BMC is.
- I expected the text corresponding to Parivaara.XII.2 to be pli-tv-pvr12 but it doesnât seem to correlate.
- Sa"ngh. 3 appears to be SaášÂghÄÂdiÂsesaÂkaášá¸a pli-tv-bu-vb-ss3
- Paac. 6 is pli-tv-bu-vb-pc6
- Paac. 67 is pli-tv-bu-vb-pc67
- Mahaaparinibbaana Sutta is dn16. Since it is quite long, I have given a deep link to the verse that is quoted.
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ok thanks, I think that proves my point. In the suttas there are the equivalent of individuals wearing ties who are highly attained. I remember the story of a potter - ok perhaps potters donât wear ties but you see what I mean 
- who had renounced all acquisitions like you say, so people like these exist. But like you say one is much more skeptical of them just because they donât wear a robe.
Concerning the question of not paying for the teachings, would you then say that these teachers should be ignored? (since one has to pay for their books):
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Very frequently, the author(s) of a text do not have the ârightâ to control of its copyright.
Case-and-point, I remember a while ago, SuttaCentral hosted the entire MadhyamÄgama as translated by Venerable AnÄlayo, with his blessing.
But his publisher did not like that and it was pulled. Afaik.
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ok, then I suppose the question is this: had Venerable AnÄlayo freely entered into an agreement with his publisher in the first place? If so the consequences of that would appear to still be due to his choice.
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He wanted to get published, so he needed a publisher.
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This topic (of copyright and charging for books) has been covered extensively on other threads, and also seems off-topic to the OP to me.
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Where have you heard this? Do the people who say this state what time period before you can have a deep meditation after sexual intercourse? One day? One week? One year? One lifetime?
The path is about the ending of suffering, not about lovely, deep meditations. Anyone can have a lovely deep meditation, you donât need to give up sex for some specific amount of time before you get a deep meditation (although itâs probably not going to happen while youâre actually engaging in sexual activity ).
Donât get me wrong, the draw of sex is obviously much less for those who get deep meditations on a regular basis. Why would one settle for second best?
I think that the rules on sex for mendicants are very consistent with dhamma.
The origin of suffering is desire (second noble truth). This is split into 3 categories. One of those categories is sense-desire. There is no sense-desire as strong as sexual desire.
The conclusion of the path is the end of desire, the end of karma. But the noble eightfold path itself is still a form of karma (neither-bright-not-dark), so the path can be seen as a form of fake it 'til you make it. This is accommodated by a habitual response - the eightfold path is a training - in modern parlance we might say âthe neurons that fire together, wire togetherâ. So maybe we might suggest that there is an emulation inherent in the path of what it looks like to be completely free from desire - an emulation of the arahant ideal.
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There is an underlying assumption that sexual activity is a necessity like breathing or eating. An assumption that it is a necessary condition for a happy, full life. In fact it is a delight that would seem to define life itself.
It is easy to dismiss the Vinaya as a cage, but as a lay person with no need to satisfy any vow, I have consistently found that the rules work when followed freely, willingly, and joyfully. And that the rules not followed bring suffering. Clearly, not killing provides obvious immediate benefit. However, sexual restraint is less obvious since the kamma ripens in non-obvious ways.
Sexual restraint seems so foreign and peculiar that we can slip into a delusional strict weirdness of abusive submission and denial, chasing desire blindly into odd loopholes of the Vinaya. Indeed many of those loopholes have been plugged (after due consideration and recording of the world-record gymnastically amazing feats of breath-taking anatomical ingenuity). To don the Vinaya as a straightjacket of strict suppression is madness.
But to uphold the Vinaya as a gentle gift, just as an adornment and requisite of the mind? To uphold the Vinaya freely and joyously, that is one of the most amazing gifts of all.
p.s., I confess that I still cannot quite let go of dinners and afternoon snacks. 
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Yes. Thatâs right. They suffered because they were trying to do something that they were currently incapable of doing, not because of the strict rules for mendicants. It would be like a 5 year old trying to hurdle in the Olympics. Itâs not just the fact that the bars are set high that would make them unable to succeed, itâs because they just canât reach them yet.
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I have met Ajahn brahm in person and if I have a serious question about how to practice the Dhamma and he has sometime to address it he does so free of any cost on the spot. You can see proof of that in the videos of his Dhamma talks in which he always spare some minutes for Q&A.
Also, if you mail Bodhinyana monastery addressing to him or any of his senior monastic disciples questions about the Dhamma or Vinaya it is 100% guaranteed you will get an answer and very much likely start a very enriching conversation with good people.
Bhikkhu Bodhiâs translations are freely available in Sutta Central and his very insightful and detailed Sutta classes are freely available in YouTube.
I have the deepest respect and gratitude for both.
P.S.: we are getting off topic arenât we? Why not checking some of the previous threads in which we discussed copyrights and Dhamma and commerce?
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This is also my understanding. In Southeast Asia (and in Southeast Asian diaspora communities) it is customary for young men (less so for women, as is my impression) to ordain for a short period in their late 'teens and early twenties and then return to lay life. I am also under the impression that many men in Southeast Asia may re-enter monastic life on occasion, particularly during life transitions. During those periods when they are ordained, these individuals follow the precepts for monastics, in part to reinforce their renunciation and to focus on deep meditation and Dhamma study. It would seem conducive during those times to refrain from sexual activity to devote as much concentration as possible to meditative practice.
On the other hand, when returning to lay life, individuals in Buddhist communities would not be expected to give up biological urges, in particular because they serve as occasions to observe how the body, feelings, and mind respond to sensory inputs in the context of the Dhamma. I am fairly new to Buddhist practice, but among the things my teachers have advised is for me to always be mindful of everything I do, that is, to be mindful and note how everything I do is registered in my body, emotions, and thoughts. This would seemingly include sensory inputs of a sexual nature.
Seen in this context, everything becomes occasion for practice. Since I am not living according to monastic precepts, the next best thing to renunciation, as it were, is to exercise mindfulness over everything I do, whether it is eating, reading, attending to personal hygiene, driving, or engaging in sexual activity. It may not be the equivalent of full-time monastic life, but it is practice.
I should add that the person in Thailand who first led me to Buddhist practice was rather typical for a Thai man. He had ordained as a young man and then pursued several career paths, between which he served as a monk. He had an adult child, so obviously he had engaged in sexual relations. He also was a wise teacher who intuitively sensed my suffering, despite the fact that I only knew him for a short time.
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There is a difference between refraining from sexual misconduct (a precept for laypeople) and refraining from sexual activity (a precept for monastics).
Unlike some other spiritual communities (e.g., Shakers) that prescribe celibacy, the Buddha did not teach that human beings should not reproduce. There is a distinction to be drawn between extinguishing the self and extinguishing human beings.
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The Buddha doesnât seem to take a stance on whether lay people should or should not reproduce their societies. But on the whole, the attitude toward reproduction and birth seems negative, and it is noteworthy that Buddhism has no traditional rites for celebrating marriage, and the suttas contain no charming and heartwarming stories about marriage feasts or cute little children. On the other hand, there are many expressions of skepticism and disapprobrium about having âdear onesâ or wanting to have more children and grandchildren. The Buddha also expresses positive views about householders who have begun to practice brahmachariya.
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Just to add some detail here. In Thailand, itâs customary that young men temporarily ordain for 3 days, 3 weeks, or 3 months before college. In Burma, itâs customary for males to temporarily ordain 3 times during their life, at important life stages.
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As long as you have things like chocolate or cheese you should be all right though, I understand that they are considered as medicine and apparently you donât have to be ill to be allowed to take medicine, so you can have as much as you like of those kind of medicinal foods.
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