Why do many Sri Lankan & Burmese monks’ Pali names end with an -a instead of an -o like in Thailand (eg. Dhammavara vs Dhammavaro)? Isn’t the nominative ending -o the convention in Pali texts?
The vocative ending usually is the base word itself, for masc, nt a. For fem ā, it’s e. So if people want to accurately call me by my short name, they will have to say Paññe.
It’s easier to use vocative as the default name, as English and Chinese doesn’t seems to use vocative case endings to be so special.
I have wanted to know this.
Thank you for your kind response, Ven .
Though I still don’t quite get why would Sri Lankan and Burmese monks find vocative form/‘-a’ ending to be more preferable (or easier) than just using nominative/‘-o’ ending for their Pali names?
Sorry if I understood it incorrectly. I still have so much to learn about Buddhism in general🙏.
It is not the vocative forms but rather the stem form of the noun that is used (without applying any declension endings). For nouns ending in the short ‘a’ the vocative word form is usually identical to the stem of that noun, but it is not always the case for non a-ending nouns.
As to why the nominative isn’t used by default, it only makes grammatical sense to use declensions when that language is being used.
For languages that dont have declensions it would be weird to use declined word forms in sentences - we dont say “the suttam was spoken buddhena”, or " the buddho spoke the contents of this suttam" - we rather say “the sutta was spoken by the buddha”, as we dont expect the listener to think in two languages at the same time.
Ah, I see. Thank you, @srkris. Because then it would be weird for Sinhalese & Burmese speakers, right?
But then Thai also has no declensions. Do they just accept using nominative and try not to be weirded out by speaking/hearing it [Edit:] (presumably to stay true to Pali grammar/how they are used in the Buddha’s time)?
I dont know why the Thais may prefer it, but even in Pali (as in Sanskrit), the nominative is default for the subject only in the active voice. In the passive voice, the subject is in instrumental.
In contrast with Sri Lanka and Myanmar, the common practice in Thailand is that a bhikkhu will scarcely ever refer to himself, or be referred to by others, by his Pali ordination name. If he hasn’t been appointed to any hierarchical office, then he’ll normally use his lay name. If he has been thus appointed, then he’ll probably use the posh Sanskrit name that he’s given upon his appointment.
The two occasions when a bhikkhu’s Pali name will be used are when a monastery is carrying out a roll call (e.g., before a Pātimokkha recital in certain monasteries) and when carrying out sanghakammas. In these contexts, there will never be an occasion to use the pre-inflected form of one’s name, while the nominative inflection will be the commonest one that occurs. A monastery roll call, for example, will go like this:
Āgato Dhammānando?
Āgato bhante.
Āgato Vimalo?
Āgato bhante.
Āgato Jotikitti?
Āgato bhante.
Etc.
I suspect this may be the explanation for the Thai practice of using the nominative case. It doesn’t, however, explain the Thai avoidance of referring to monks by their Pali names outside of sanghakammas. That for me is a complete mystery.
Thank you Ven @Dhammanando for the insight on the Thai side . It does sound quite plausible as to the questions why & how. Also, can’t blame them for using their lay Thai nicknames. They’re short and catchy!
Then when carrying out roll calls & sanghakammas, do Sri Lankan and Burmese monks do them in their own respective native language? Or if they’re doing them in Pali, do they inflect their Pali names to be with a nominative ‘-o’ ending?
This is speech in Pali (and the adjective and substantive refer to the same person), so it makes sense to use declensions.
All Theravada monks carry out sanghakammas in Pali. The hypothesis in my earlier post was that it’s the combination of carrying out sanghakammas in Pali, while seldom using a monk’s Pali name outside of sanghakammas, that has led to the names appearing in the nominative case in Thailand.
I asked a related question a few years back; the conversation may be of interest: What is Buddho – vs. Buddha?.
I imagine it’s some combination of factors…
- Unlike monks in Sri Lanka, Thai monks are often (usually?) ordaining temporarily. There’s not such a need to make a big break with your lay life if you’ll be returning to it shortly.
- And perhaps since a (the?) large group of monks are staying for just a few months or even weeks, it might make sense for everyone to just stick with their lay names.
- Especially as it may come across as a bit elitist if you try to insist that everyone call you by your special, liturgical name when most people aren’t bothering to change theirs. A kind of social momentum that makes the change sticky.
Does any of that hypothesizing strike you as implausible or insufficient, Bhante?
It’s interesting. In Sri Lanka you legally lose your lay name. Your birth town name kind of becomes your first name, and that’s only used in legal documents or to clarify between monks with the same Pali name. Although I do hear it used in roll call situations (Not Patimokkha, though. Never heard of a roll call there.).
However it is considered somewhat impolite to refer to monks by name if it can at all be avoided. It could actually be considered more polite to refer to someone as “the fat monk” than it would be to use their name.
All that has nothing to do with grammar.
I had always thought the Pali name goes first then the birth city as last. So perhaps that could make ‘Sakyaputta’ as the monks’ family name?
No, it’s always birth city/toxw/village first.
I can’t remember how it’s placed on an id, but until recently on passports under first name was always xxx
and then last name was Rev <town name> <Pali name> Thero
.
Suuuuper annoying to try and use that PP as an id in western countries. Clerks will be like, “Ok Mr. Thero, here’s your documents…”
I think it’s plausible enough.
Another possibility that occurs to me is that it may be connected with local superstitions regarding names. The name on a Thai person’s official ID card has usually been selected with considerable care and in consultation with a brahminically-trained fortune-teller. Their name supposedly has great influence on their fortunes in life and if they have some bad luck (a serious illness, bankruptcy, criminal prosecution, etc.) then it’s common for Thais to request a fortune-teller to assign them a new name.
By contrast, the typical Thai preceptor will assign a nāga a Pali name with very little thought at all. There’s a list of names associated with each day of the week and the preceptor (or more likely his secretary) will just randomly select one based on which day of the week the nāga happens to have been born. That being so, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Pali name held rather less cachet than the brahminically-bestowed name.
I must admit I’ve never actually asked a Thai monk about this matter. I find that questions like this nearly always elicit the same answer: a shrug of the shoulders, followed by, “It’s just the way that we Thais like to do things.”