True. But he knew there was a problem and he was looking for an answer.
Yes. He was already ‘primed’ by his experience as religious practitioners on the path in previous lifetimes, if the EBTs are to be believed. Also the holy life was a lifestyle which was open to anyone if they so wished to take it up. I think it would have been equivalent to changing ones career path nowadays, which of course had an impact on his princess and his only child, much like an army soldier going to war overseas or a sailor on a long trip.
He seemed to try out the most promising candidates in terms of practices that were present at the time, which is a meaningful approach. He didn’t give up, even with the most sever austerities, except when they proved to be ineffective.
I think it is important to remember that his later biographies attempted to make his life more dramatic and very readable to the ordinary listeners. Elements like seeing the Four signs in a dramatic way, running away in the middle of the night not telling anyone, his horse dying of grief etc were added later.
Don’t worry. You aren’t making anyone depressed! I saw the change you made - it looks fine. This thread is quite interesting actually so please don’t withdraw it.
I think it was a bit more dramatic than that. He tells us that his parents were in tears, and that his choice reflected a rejection of the worldly value system that is based on the pursuit of dying and impermanent things by the dying and impermanent. And in his early years, he was not wandering as part of a company of students following a teacher, but rather as a solitary renunciant hermit. There was a tradition of some such people being around, and such people seemed to have been venerated by some. But we can also tell from the suttas that such people were frequently mocked, abused and ridiculed - as we see for example in the story where boys poked his ears with sticks.
Correct. But going off seeking the Truth wasn’t uncommon those days. There was a niche in society set aside for them. The parents would be upset as they wanted him to become a king and he was predicted to become a ‘universal’ monarch. They would be upset to see him become a ‘shavelling’ recluse instead.
He joined the student groups of two teachers Alara Kalama and Uddakaramaputt, who taught the immaterial attainments. When he realised that he wasn’t attaining what he wished for he struck off on his own. I doesn’t strike me as a reckless rejection of society- more an attempt to find a Path of practice, and the appropriate setting or lifestyle for it. He experimented a lot with food, robes etc.
Depression leads to a state of bleakness where inactivity has a vicious hold on the mind. Just getting out of bed in the morning becomes an impossible task. The suttas don’t portray the Buddha (bodhisatta) as being afflicted with such morbid stagnation and ennui.
The problem is that almost all of the suttas take place at a time after the Buddha’s enlightenment. But the Attandanda sutta is one of the few describing the state of mind that led him to leave home in the first place, and it sounds quite despairing.
It is noteworthy that this seems to be the case of all well attained masters of nowadays. I remember reading that one of the head monks of Thai Forest tradition decided to take the robes after getting really disappointed with his life. Unless the individual has taken the robes since childhood there is always some sort of deep disappointment and disgust with the insane and nonsensical circumstances of lay life involved.
Like Bhante Gunaratana, for example. To be ordained as a child and then be a celibate monk for the entirety of one’s life, firmly established in the Dhamma, is truly worthy of respect. He talks about his struggle with lust during the period when his hormones were young and excitable in this interview:
Yes, I have a speculative view that such individuals come from a very special place in terms of engagement in the path in previous births. They tend as well be very humble about their own practice and views about it, and naturally manifest kindness and compassion towards others. But that’s not based on EBTs and therefore not worth even discussing!
Despairing, shocked, sad, grieving are human emotions people have going through life. Depression is a specific clinical condition with specific symptoms. I treat these people regularly. The term depression can be used loosely as well, but that can be confusing.
In today’s newspaper, a s/w “depressing” report (no attribution in the article; maybe from AP or Reuters):
"… a University of Exeter study…research has shown male fresh-water [about 20% of them in English rivers] are displaying ‘feminized’ traits, demonstrating femalebehavior and even producing eggs…” “The chemicals causingthese effects are flushed down the toilet and include ingredients inthe contraceptive pill, and byproducts of cleaning agents, plastics, and cosmetics…” “The offspring and grandchildren oftransgender fish also can be more sensitized to the effects of thosechemicals in subsequent exposures.” “Over 200 chemicals from sewageplants have been identified with estrogen-like effects. Some not onlyare creating ‘trans-gender’ fish but effecting fish physiology insurprising ways. Drugs such as anti-drepressantswere also found to be altering fish’s natural behavior’” “… some of these chemicals canhave much wider health effects on fish than … expected… estrogensfound in some plastics affect the valves in the heart…” “Other research has shown thatmany chemicals … discharged through sewage treatment works canaffect fish, including antidepressant drugs that reduce the naturalshyness of some fish species, including the way they react topredators.”
First thing that came to mind: What about humans?
The focus on estrogens and “transgender” effects, IMO, is less significant (tho makes for catchy headlines) than the implications as to the degree of contamination, and that the effects are much broader. For instance “reduce the natural shyness of some fish species” – increases tendencies to aggression?
May seem off-topic, but, IMO, relevant:
1: The discussion of various types and degrees of “depression” – how to define it, what are the causes, the remedies?
2: The (pre-awakened) Buddha was sensitive to “depressing” aspects of the human condition, which, in today’s terminology, includes concerns about the “man-made” environment. He perceived living as a problem, worth seeking a radical solution to.
He was ordained under Kassapa Buddha (the Gatikara sutta MN81) and he as a religious teacher developed the divine abodes a great amount and as a result became maha brahma etc in a previous birth (can’t find the sutta).
