Wrong Indonesian Translation in D.N 1

“Or he might say: ‘Whereas some honourable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of stored up goods such as stored up food, drinks, garments, vehicles, bedding, scents, and COSMETIBLES—the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of stored up goods’

‘“Sementara beberapa petapa dan Brahmana, memakan makanan pemberian mereka yang berkeyakinan, cenderung menikmati barang-barang simpanan seperti makanan, minuman, pakaian, kereta, tempat tidur, pengharum, DAGING, Petapa Gotama menjauhi kenikmatan demikian.

the word : “COSMETIBLES” is wrongly translated into DAGING.

DAGING (Indonesian) = MEAT

Please fix it because we know Buddha accepted meat.


Thank you @ponmcjimron!
@seniya - can you please have a look and let me know?

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Dear @ponmcjimron,

The English translation we are using for translating DN into Indonesian are based on Walshe translation, which translate it as meat:

"'Whereas some ascetics and Brahmins, feeding on the food of the faithful, remain addicted to the enjoyment of stored-up goods such as food, drink, clothing, carriages, beds, perfumes, meat, the ascetic Gotama refrains from such enjoyment.

The Pali is:

‘Yathā vā paneke bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā saddhādeyyāni bhojanāni bhuñjitvā te evarūpaṃ sanni­dhi­kāra­pari­bhogaṃ anuyuttā viharanti, seyyathidaṃ—annasannidhiṃ pānasannidhiṃ vattha­sanni­dhiṃ yānasannidhiṃ sayana­sanni­dhiṃ gandha­sanni­dhiṃ āmisasannidhiṃ iti vā iti evarūpā sanni­dhi­kāra­pari­bhogā paṭivirato samaṇo gotamo’ti—iti vā hi, bhikkhave, puthujjano tathāgatassa vaṇṇaṃ vadamāno vadeyya.

From Pali English Dictionary used in SC, the word “āmisa” can be translated as “food” or “(raw) meat” [https://suttacentral.net/define/%C4%81misa], but I’m sorry because our source prefers “meat” to “food”, so we have no choice :slight_smile:

Besides, if you translate it as “cosmetibles”, which also means foods, whereas “food” has been said in the item list (the word “anna” = “food”). So this is a redundancy in the list.


If like that , it is RAW MEAT, than you should translate it into DAGING MENTAH (in indonesia, it means Raw Meat, Translating it into meat (instead of raw-meat) will cause confusion and will look like vegetarian).


Thanks so much for raising this point. It is not a simple matter!

In Ven Bodhi’s translations of DN 1 and DN 2, as you point out, āmisa is translated as “comestibles”. And as Seniya points out, if we render this as “comestibles”, we duplicate “food”, which is a translation of anna.

This particular use of āmisa would seem to be related to the usage we find in the Bhikkhuni Khandhaka (Kd 20 #96–92). There, āmisa is said to be placed in the bowl, which is significantly used here instead of the normal piṇḍapāta. But the discussion rapidly shifts to problems with the storage of excess āmisa. And while the stock passage at DN 1 and DN2 forbids storing of āmisa, the Khandhaka allows it, but only after there’s been sufficient effort to distribute it. Unfortunately, neither the commentary nor the sub-commentary define āmisa here.

In the commentary to DN 1, however, we find an extensive, and rather entertaining, discussion of this point. Unfortunately this is not included in Ven Bodhi’s translation of the commentary. The essence of the story is that a monk stores aside various foodstuffs in the expectation that they’ll come in handy. During the vassa, after the novice has offered the morning’s porridge, the monk complains that it’s hard to go for alms when the road is so muddy. He tells the novice to go on an errand for him instead—apparently he’s not concerned that the novice will find the road too muddy! He sends the novice back to his home village where he is to ask for some curd. Anyway, when the novice furnishes the stuff he likes, the monk ends up eating so much very delicious food that he gets a double chin (gīvāyāmaka), and people say he’s living like a lord, not like a monk.

The list of foodstuffs is given as follows:

  • tila = sesame
  • taṇḍula = rice
  • mugga = mung
  • māsa = bean
  • nāḷikera = coconut
  • loṇa = salt
  • maccha = fish
  • maṁsa = meat
  • vallūra = dried meat
  • sappi = ghee
  • tela = oil
  • guḷa = sugar
  • bhājanādīni = plates, etc.

This list, and the story, give us a useful idea of what is referred to here. Rather than the normal piṇḍapāta, i.e. prepared food to be eaten immediately, āmisa seems to refer to storable foodstuffs, including raw foods or things used as ingredients, perhaps including utensils. That’s why they needed supplementing with curd. Such fresh foods are notably absent from the list (fish and meat being perhaps an exception). Āmisa here seems to echo both its original sense of “raw”, and also the sense of “luxurious, indulgent”.

I would suggest that the English “foodstuff” works pretty well as a translation here. Merriam-Webster:

a substance with food value; specifically, the raw material of food before or after processing


You miss the point. It is because the English source (Walsche translation) we used translated it as meat (daging), so we have no choice. We didn’t translate DN from the original Pali into Indonesian.


@indra please have a look… :slight_smile:

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