YARVVI = Yet Another Reason Vitakka & Vicara Is...
Vitakka = directed-thoughts, Vicāra=Evaluation (of said Vitakka) Whether you're in the first jhāna, or in an ordinary state of mind, Vitakka is a thought, and Vicāra is pondering/examining/evaluating/scrutinizing said thought.There is a pernicious misunderstanding perpetrated by late Theravada, late Abhidhamma & Vism., and unfortunately a very common view popular nowadays that Vitakka and Vicara in first jhāna is something entirely different. By doing detailed Pali+English audits, hopefully in my life time we can wipe out this misunderstanding. All the EBT evidence supports the interpretation above. If you trace the EBT passages themselves, and even early Abhidhamma’s Vibhanga definition of V&V, through KN Pe, Vimuttimagga, they consistently support the EBT position above.
It’s only in later Abhidhamma, where they were beholden to their ideas of momentariness that they found it necessary to redefine jhāna, kāya, sukha vedana, V&V in first jhāna, among other things.
Vism. Redefinition of V&V for 4 jhānas
88.So far the factors abandoned by the jhāna have been shown. And now, in order to show the factors associated with it, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought is said. [142] Herein, applied thinking (vitakkana) is applied thought (vitakka); hitting upon, is what is meant.25 It has the characteristic of directing the mind on to an object (mounting the mind on its object). Its function is to strike at and thresh—for the meditator is said, in virtue of it, to have the object struck at by applied thought, threshed by applied thought. It is manifested as the leading of the mind onto an object. Sustained thinking (vicaraṇa) is sustained thought (vicāra); continued sustainment (anusañcaraṇa), is what is meant. It has the characteristic of continued pressure on (occupation with) the object. Its function is to keep conascent [mental] states [occupied] with that. It is manifested as keeping consciousness anchored [on that object].
Wait, I thought Bhante Sujato was on the side of the EBT?
Bhante Sujato's translation of V&V:Vitakka = placing the mind, Vicāra = keeping the mind connected
B. Sujato’s translation seems to be an elegant and easier to comprehend version of Visuddhimagga’s redefinition of V&V for first jhāna. Note Vism. has created an “access concentration” that doesn’t violate V&V in the sense of “thinking and pondering”. But there is no access concentration in EBT. What gives here? You’ll have to ask Bhante Sujato. I’m an optimist and think that he will at some point review all the mountains of evidence in the EBT and change his translation to something more along the lines of what every other English translator who follows the EBT interpretation. But if doesn’t, hopefully he will at least show the EBT that supports his interpretation, and how he arrived at that conclusion.
If you look a the Abhidhamma Vb definition of V&V, KN Pe, Vimuttimagga (listed in chronological order there), you’ll see the similes and definitions they use for V&V are very consistent with the EBT. It’s only 900 years later in Vism. (500 yr after Vimt.) where they make radical and inappropriate changes. I’ve basically gone through the works listed above with detailed pali/english translation so you can confirm for yourself in pali how the EBT meaning gets corrupted in late Theravada.
KN Pe: Peṭakopadesa (pitaka disclosure): everything interesting it says about jhāna & samādhi
Foolish cow is doomed: V&V (vitakka&vicāra) in Abhidhamma Vibhanga and KN Petako to Vism
mountains of EBT evidence showing V&V = directed-thought and evaluation
How other professional translators translate V&V in various EBT schools
from Pali, Agamas, Tibetan, Sanskrit
AN passages (click hyperlinks)
- AN 3.60 V&V “heard”, read by telepathy, psychic power of mind reading
- AN 3.60 longer analysis on V&V
- AN 3.101, MN 19: Nice pali+english analysis and critique of B. Sujato V&V blog
- AN 4.41 S&S doing V&V in 3rd and 4th jhana
- AN 5.26 V&V role in 7sb/jhana, speech ceasing
- AN 5.26 The Assassination of Kāya and Vitakka
- AN 5.176 householder jhana, implied V&V
- AN 6.10 V&V → 7sb, I found my “Buddho”, on singular hill
- AN 6.10 buddha, dhamma, sangha recollection V&V → 7sb → 4 jhanas
- AN 6.56 phagguna hearing, using V&V in jhana to attain nirvana
- AN 6.73, 6.74, 6.75 V&V in first jhana, perceptions in j2-j4
- AN 7.61 Moggallana uses V&V to fight drowsiness
- AN 8.30 how 8 thoughts of Dhamma link to four jhanas directly
KN passages (click hyperlinks)
KN Snp 4.7 and wrong concentration of holding the breath “jhana”
KN Snp 5.13 V&V working with 4th jhana and formless attainment
MN passages (click hyperlinks)
MN 18 in relation to AN 4.41 and MN 19’s V&V
MN 19 B. sujato trans. V&V incoherent
MN 19 compare B. sujato trans. to Ajahn Chah and B. Gunaratana
MN 19 critique of B. Sujato V&V blog
MN 20 MN 19, 20 deep dive into the role of V&V in first jhana
MN 44 vaci sankhara incoherent
MN 44 even in Vism. vitakka is thinking as vaci-sankhara
MN 78 , its parallel MA 179, YARVVI, corroborates MN 125, wholesome thinking still active in first jhana
MN 111 sariputta in first jhana doing S&S, as in AN 4.41
MN 117 sankappo needs to be consistent with vitakka & vaci sankhara of MN 44
MN 125 see msg 11, elephant not in the room, case of missing first jhana:
SN passages (click hyperlinks)
- SN 21.1 noble silence = STED 2nd jhana
- SN 36.11 comparison with SA 474: ānanda thinks while in dhyāna/jhāna
- SN 40.1, 40.2 Moggallana refining imperfect 2nd jhana still needs to “keep mind connected” (in msg. 7 )
- SN 41.8 Founder of Jain religion converses with Buddha’s disciple about first and second jhana, using the words vitakka & vicara, it seems far fetched he could understand V&V of first jhana as “placing the mind and keeping it connected.” (Msg 3 )
- SN 47.10 directed/undirected, vicara takes on opposite meaning, ockhams razor
- SN 48.9 5ind, 5bal → V&V → 7sb, I found my “Buddho”
- SN 56.7 vitakka takes 4NT as vipassana, SN 56.1 samadhi brings you to nirvana
MA Madhyama Agama passages (click hyperlinks)
MA 102, || tp MN 19, corroborates the missing elephant first jhana from MN 125, MN 78
MA 179, || MN 78, corroborates MN 125, wholesome thinking still active in first jhana
SA Samyukta Agama passages (click hyperlinks)
SA 474: ānanda thinks while in dhyāna/jhāna, || to SN 36.11
V&V from non-EBT text
- V&V in yogacara bhumi
- V&V in Sphuṭārthā Abhidharmakośavyākhyā
- even in Vism. first jhana vitakka is verbal mental recitation
- first jhana in dzogchen tantra
V&V are defined as vaci-sankhāra, speech fabrications
In other words, they are the thoughts you think to yourself before you speak them out loud.AN 3.60 V&V “heard”, read by telepathy, psychic power of mind reading
AN 8.30 anuruddha’s mind read by buddha at beginning as “pari vitakka” is coherent unspoken speech, verse at end calls the same thought read as “sankappa”
- SN 36.11 gradual 9 jhana cessations, noble silence
- first jhana making “squeaky noises” to violate noble silence? (msg 8)
- second jhana is noble silence, relevant passages
First Jhāna V&V, overlapping territory with 7sb (awakening factors)
- 42 EBT samadhi nimitta which feed 7sb
- AN 6.10 V&V → 7sb, I found my “Buddho”, on singular hill
- MN 19, SN 47, SN 46 V&V needs to be “thinking” to keep 7sb causal sequence connected
- SN 48.9 5ind, 5bal → V&V → 7sb, I found my “Buddho”
Miscellaneous
Ajahn Chah says in first jhāna V&V = thinking & evaluation, physical body feels bliss