Youse are listening to too many Dhamma talks

Yes, good question. I definitely think guided meditation can be a useful starter. In the groups I teach, I sometimes ask whether they’d prefer guided or unguided, and people invariably choose guided. But then, to what extent is it replacing your own experience with someone else’s idea of meditation? No-one knows what’s going on in your mind except yourself.

I think it’s probably best to keep guided meditation for learning and occasional refreshers, and when you’re ready to go any deeper, you’re on your own.

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I agree, Bhante. Guided meditations can be really helpful for learning something new, especially when the instructions during a session are progressive (such as your metta instructions). When I was starting I did find detailed instructions on getting settled useful, but now I’d rather just do my own routine of scanning/relaxing/etc. (So I prefer when the teacher says something general like: “scan the body looking for tension”, rather than “scan the head… now the neck… now the…”. Guidance without being too pushy…).

However, I’m not surprised that people who come to your sessions tend to ask for some guidance. We don’t get the chance for instruction every day… :slight_smile:

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Maybe that’s what Bhante is trying to point to, but my question to the same monk would be; How have you contributed as an experienced monk to make people see for themself the internal meaning or point of the three refuges, so they can walk the walk?

When I listen to background music I do prefer to put on real music … So, my guess is that people listen because there is something unseen good in their hearts that resonate with words of the dhamma, and that isn’t wrong, because one sunny day the unseen might suddenly shine through the veils of delusion and ignorance dissolve. Just keep on and on and on …

This is valid points but is still just opinions about “right effort”, and I agree that there is such a thing as right effort, but how and when to apply the right kind of effort changes, so one has to keep a beginners mind and attitude all the time, or else one might as will become mechanical and conditioned in one’s practice.
Often Ajahn’s say at the end of the talk: Consider this as reflections, and if you find something useful that’s fine, if not, that is also fine.

I would be a bit ashamed if I couldn’t recall basic stuff like that. But I also know that I would put greater effort into never experience the same thing to happen in the future.

There are noumerous ways one can make teachings become more interesting, but I’m not a teacher so I let them consoder what’s best. But I could maybe become a better or more dedicated student if when taking the three refuge, finished with the sentence; and I take these three refuges for the rest of my life …

It might raise the bar up to where it belongs :pray:

Well, I’m partly agreeing, but mostly disagreeing, because I see no point in carry more stuff than absolutely necessary, and that also put’s more pressure on my own ability to find my own answers when difficulties arise, before seeking external help in any form.

I really like to get lost, you know … :yum:

:pray: :sparkles:

:pray: :sparkles:

I myself tend to prefer the Ajahn General, and not so much the Ajahn Grandmother. So, I say there should be put in more fierceness delivering important teachings that is meant to stick.

Dhamma is deadly serious, and the Ajahn should speak softly and carry a big stick … :pray:

More guts and commitment on all sides.

I take these three refuges for the rest of my life

How about making it guided but optional? As in, if at any point someone feels like meditating in a specific way, they are free to do that. That way the inexperienced meditators won’t feel pressured to obey every single instruction. (The experienced ones probably won’t feel that pressure in the first place.)

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But seriously, the older I get, the more I feel like I need to learn less about the “5 of this” or the “7 of that” and just try to do simple things like be more patient, forgiving, and understanding.

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5 posts were split to a new topic: Modern mindfulness trends

They don’t talk to much and they don’t hear to much. But they just want to spend time to wash their boredom.

I experience not remembering a sizeable potion of the wisdom I hear and read, and it seems this experience is shared to different degrees with many people.

But I’m unsure how much this experience of not rememebering is just the way the mind, all human minds, work; or how much this experience of not remembering is just my own mind; or much this expereince of not remembering is due to my psychology as conditioned by this modern society and culture that we here share, and is thus an experience shared by many people in people in this modern society and culture, but not an experience shared by people in other societies and cultures, nor shared by those who have cultivated their mental faculties to a high degree.

Does anyone think that there is a way to practice in order to go from remembering a small percentage of the wisdom heard and read (as I do), to remembering a larger amount of wisdom heard and read?

Perhaps someone wiser and/or more experienced could share how, and/or how much, they remember of wisdom they hear, and read.

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Hi @MitchellStirzaker , welcome to D&D.

I strongly recommend “starting from the begining” and developing a mind map of the teaching aligned with that one we see the Buddha teaching in EBTs.

This mindmap is basically built around two things: the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path.

Towards that, it may be a nice idea to watch the videos from the workshop on the topic of the noble eightfold path that BSWA is hosting. You can find more about it in this topic:

The beauty of the mindmaps we find in the suttas is that they are usually based on concepts which link back to each other.

The four noble truths must be appreciated together with their specific tasks. And these tasks relate very clearly to specific aspects of the eightfold path themselves.

In line with that, I often refer to the diagram below. The most relevant part of it is the section summarising the bodhipakkhiya dhammas (towards the right half of the diagram), which consist of 37 principles which the Buddha said summarise the whole of his teaching.

The eightfold path is a central or core aspect of these 37 principles or qualities which lead to awakening and is surely a very good idea to learn about those starting with it.

:anjal:

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My preceptor used to quiz us after she gave a talk. I would recommend that you quiz yourself after you listen to a talk. What was the first main point? Were there any examples, stories, etc. illustrating it? Any sutta quotes? What was the next important point, etc. Imagine the teacher is going to ask you what you got from the talk. Did any questions come up for you listening? Did anything move you?

Soon you begin making mental notes as you listen. We have become so lazy with all the totally unimportant input we listen to - we have forgotten how to listen actively. After some practice you will become quite proficient.

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Most of the conceptual and foundational knowledge I’ve picked up over the years has come from reading rather than listening to talks. Of course, in the Budda’s time, that would not have been an option. I mostly use talks to refresh intention and energy, as those will sometimes flag a bit. I’m planning on attaining perfection sometime next week, so that I won’t need that kind of help anymore. I think probably Wednesday. :wink:

A couple of Soto teachers I admire, namely Steve Hagen and the late Shunryu Suzuki, have sometimes said during a talk that it’s not necessary to try to remember everything that’s being said in a talk. Soto often uses the image of getting wet by walking in a fog as a description of what it’s like to progress along the path, which I like very much, and that ties in with the notion of not trying too hard to remember everything that’s said. Hearing and mentally engaging with what’s being said seems to help reinforce some neural pathways in the brain, for me anyway, whether I can recite all the points that were made or not.

I don’t disagree with B. Sujato’s point, though. Listening to dhamma talks of various sorts can sometimes make a person feel like they’re “doing something,” whilst nothing heard is being put into action. That’s the hard part for me, the maintenance of everyday samma kammanta, well, and samma vaca too I guess. But it’ll all be fine on Wednesday.

P.S. “Youse” was a word I grew up with in Ohio. When I lived in Texas, “y’all” was so common that it’s crept into my own speech. There’s also “all y’all,” which is what one uses instead of “all of you.” “Y’all,” oddly, can be used correctly when addressing one person, much like polite address in other languages uses the plural.

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Best way to listen in on his weekly talks??? Thanx,
joeL

If you must!

https://lokanta.live/

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Bhante in a parlance common in circles I am around in sydney this is what is sometimes refered to as the Good Shit.

(Edit: demonstrating canda… xD the multiple talks on the 4 iddhipadas are great… )

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Wow, I only just read this post Bhante, so much useful stuff packed into one post :anjal:

I appreciate this analogy

Insightful way of viewing the internet, makes a lot of sense, and very quotable IMHO :slight_smile:

Yeah good point Bhante, I admit I get a bit shy when discussing Dhamma for some reason but I think I’ll put in more effort when it’s appropriate.

Yep guilty as charged :sweat_smile:

:open_mouth: :grin: I guess it could be fun

Yeah this last one is a good point Bhante, I’ll have to change some of my current perceptions regarding this.

Many thanks Bhante, very useful indeed :grinning: :anjal:

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I’ve been enjoying getting folks to participate a lot more on recent retreats/workshops here in Malaysia. People are a bit reluctant at first but then they really warm up to it and enjoy themselves because they see how thought provoking engagement can be.

For example, here’s a list of activities we did over the last weekend at the Buddhist Gem Fellowship in Petaling Jaya.

  • Get to know you activity
    Participants pick a random everyday objects from a selection and then are till that this is a metaphor for their spiritual practice. They share this info with a partner and then the partner introduces them to the group. It’s a fun way to help people talk about important stuff and also connects our everyday life to our spiritual practice.

  • Generosity activity
    I ask them to select another object from the above activity and also something really important they have on their person (phone, keys, wallet ,ID card etc) and we give the first object away and then I ask them how they’d feel about giving their important object away… It’s not about the object itself but about identifying the me/ mine/ my aspect and what prevents us from sharing, or shows how greed and selfishness works.

  • What’s your Meditation Animal?
    We all know the monkey mind but what animal would your meditation practice be? It can be actual or aspirational. Then we draw it :laughing:

  • Ethical Dilemmas
    The room is divided into strongly agree at one end and strongly disagree at the other, with neutral in the middle and shades of agree or disagree on either side towards strongly agree/disagree. Then a series of statements are made and the participants need to go to a zone that matches their ethics: agree, strongly disagree etc. For example, “Keeping precepts is very important”, and “I always keep my precepts”, and, “Killing is bad”, “killing cockroaches is ok” etc

  • Fortune Cookie
    I haven’t come up with a better name for this (maybe GOOD Fortune cookie?) but anyway what we do is write a few things down that we learnt about at the retreat that might help others, such as how to develop joy or how to keep Saṃvega in mind. Then they fold up the paper, put it in a bowl and everyone gets to select one to take some advice home as a reminder of the retreat that they can open and read when they need it. This has been a really lovely and meaningful activity.

At first some people are a little confused and reluctant to get out of the passive learning mode but I’ve found people are usually willing to get involved and eventually they see that it helps build understanding and spiritual friendships.

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That’s so awesome venerable!

You should make a blog or something with your cool teaching ideas. Or just post them here!

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Bhante that’s awesome :slight_smile:

They’re really good and each has their own useful way of learning, the ones that stand out for me are the Generosity activity and the fortune cookie. It’s a shame that there is no actual fortune cookie that you can munch on, I remember that was part of the “niceness” about it, the fact that you get to eat the sweet tasting cookie :grin: :anjal:

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That sounds wonderful!

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Youse? I did not know Bhante @sujato was from Brooklyn, NY. I have yet to see him say deese, dem, and dose.

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