Not only gender everything is impermanence.
This is exactly my point.
Why we argue about petty things when we have a greater task ahead of us.
I am glad my mother did not allow me to become a monk when I was young.
I have not interest of becoming a monk in a snake pit.
Your point is important but it can be valid only in a perfect situation. By perfect, I mean being enlightened having given up all effluents. But even during the time of the Buddha there were issues involving monks and to expect that monks and nuns have no effluents particularly those relating to self issues is a tall order. This is human nature fighting for equality. Even to progress in the path everybody must respect each other as equals or follow the vinaya rules. When both these fail, then we have what Ayya Vimala describes.
With Metta
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Where did Buddha say everybody is equal?
Mana, Samana and Asamana oll are fetters.
He did not say that literally. But if you read Phenapindupama Sutta SN 22.95 you will understand what I mean.
With Metta
I know this Sutta very well.
You cant support your point with that.
You dismiss or reduce everything i said in the post you quote to “petty things”? You cherry pick one agreement and ignore all else?
This is sad.
:shakes her head, walks away from thread ::
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Because it affects how they are able to practice. Just like descrimination on the grounds of race or gender affected/affects what some people are able to do.
Perhaps you also think that the racial discrimination that used to occur in many countries (and still does in some places) was just a “petty thing”. People of certain races not being allowed to attend certain schools or universities, or be treated in certain hospitals was just a petty thing? They should have just “got over it”? Like the Bhikkhunis?
Ok, will take one at a time.
What should be is the order of lining to obtain food?
Well, of course, you can always attempt to reduce a serious systemic problem to trivialities by picking on details that, in themselves, are not particularly significant.
Why should black people in the US have been concerned about which toilet they could use, or whether or not they got a seat on a bus? Rosa Parks shouldn’t have been such a complainer…
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Agree.
I brought it up as it was in OP.
I understand there are reports that nun’s are abused by monks.
For me it is a serious concern but not how to lining to obtain food.
You did not answer my question “What should be the order of lining to obtain food”
Ok I will tell my experience.
- When I was young my mother first give food to father then children and she take the food last.
- When I have a party in my house we feed the children first then the women then the men I take the food last.
- When we go to a buffet who ever goes first.
Considering above what should be the order of lining to obtain food by monks?
Second thought @mikenz66
Do not worry it appears moderators think my attempt to answer OP as a distraction.
So I bow down from this thread.
Let’s put it this way, if everything else was equal most people would not care much about the food line.
Actually I’m glad (sometimes) to have a voice of ‘traditional’ Buddhism. It prevents us from thinking that our particular bubble of ‘western’ Buddhism is self-evidently correct. But it also shows how pointless discussions sometimes seem to be.
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- What is the reason Bhikkhunnis walk behind Samaneras on Pindapata? Tradition or Vinaya?
- We’re you Bhikkhunis not aware of this before you ordained?
- Why do you want to change these things now?
- Are you not happy with the way you are treated?
I think that If it is tradition, then dialogue can change these issues to come more into line with the 21st century ans treatment of women. I don’t think it needs to be compared with black activists though as their treatment was a lot more harmful, and it may encourage a schism of some sort with the arising of anger.
Do you mean a schism of Sangha?
Possibly.
There is potential If the Nuns were to become activists and refused to follow tradition and rules.
This is an extreme possibility and is not something likely to happen before any dialogue and is probably going off topic here.
As far as I’m aware Nuns do not get mistreated the way blacks did in the 50’s, or am I incorrect?
Good point.
This is the very reason I strongly trying to make my point to avoid a future schism of Sangha. We all know the repercussion of this.
Well, my point in making the comparison was that the OP was picking on one of the relatively small issues, and seemed to be using that to dismiss the very serious problems that seem to exist.
Similarly, there were a lot worse things happening in the US in the 1950s than segregated toilets and busses.
As I understand the rule regarding ‘schism in the sangha’ is related to a sangha not the Sangha. Ie a single community not the Maha-Sangha. This would be community of monks or a community of nuns (at least 4)
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Is it so that bhikkhunis are barred from certain practices of the Noble Eightfold Path? Are there “males only” kinds of practice?
The human nature is “fighting”, right. For something. There will be always what to fight for. This is a kind of craving and/or aversion.