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AN.4.170. - In Tandem

Namo Buddhaya

I am Gandha and I want to ask sonething in the Yuganaddha Sutta.

Re. 1, 2 and 3 type of achieving enlightenment is understandable.

However, no. 4 type where someone with restlessness concerning the Dhamma and so sudden in his/her mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it—his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

Is it correlate to ‘Sudden Elightenment’ in Zen Buddhism?

Please do enlight me?

With metta, HSS

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“Then there is the case where a monk’s mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.”—Thanissaro

No. From the Theravada view restlessness is the penultimate of the higher fetters, and follows the destruction of eight previous fetters, including the five gross lower, so this is a case of an experienced practitioner.

"[1] Just as the ocean has a gradual shelf, a gradual slope, a gradual inclination, with a sudden drop-off only after a long stretch; in the same way this Dhamma & Vinaya has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual practice, with a penetration to gnosis only after a long stretch.—Ud 5.5

“[1] The continental shelf off the east coast of India does have a sudden drop-off after a long gradual slope.”

Really? Then number four should be obvious. :joy:

No. The whole sudden / gradual thing was a Chinese metaphysical debate.

Welcome to the Forum!

EDIT: But seriously, listen to this. I think it will help :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Welcome to the Forum Gandha. :smiley:

The topic has been discussed here:

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This refers not to the path in general but to arising of the supramundane path, where the eight links of the noble eightfold path unify. An eclectic practice where elements from other schools or religions are included would prevent this from happening. It also requires basic correct understanding of the factors of the path and their function.

Bikkhu Bodhi explains the difference between mundane path and supramundane, 36m:

Thank you very much
:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

Thank you very much very much to all. :pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

This unity of the path is through the factors divided into two contrasting groups as insight (right effort) and tranquillity as described in SN 46.53. There must be balance between insight and tranquillity for interaction to occurr. In AN 4.170 the three preceding cases would also have achieved balance, and “Then there is the case where a monk’s mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma well under control” means balance. The seven factors of awakening describe the noble eightfold path from the view of dynamics.

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And how somebody can achieve the path or control his restlessness without training anything? It seems that he/she suddenly got everything under control without any effort. Such nice way to enter the stream.

No, it means the practitioner stated to Ven Ananda that awakening had been achieved due to balance, focussing on the end of the process rather than the preceding developmental stage.

Is it mean that he/she has a mature knowledge (panna) which maybe developed in the previous life and come to fruition in this very life?