Such a wonderful message. Thanks!
May we all be free from suffering and its causes.
With mettā.
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I totally agree. 
How can this ever lead to anything bad ever?
Thank you for the attempt though!
Makes sense, I agree.
Thank you for explaining. Your point is well-taken regarding there being a beneficial democratic process instituted in the structure of the Sangha.
In your original comment, you stated:
Allow me to provide a partial counter-argument.
First, I agree that the democratic processes, perhaps even somewhat radical democracy, was accepted by the Sangha and the positions of Sangharajas and perhaps abbots of monasteries do not seem authorized by the Dhamma-Vinaya. So I think we both agree that beneficial democracy was not only accepted, but also utilized within the Sangha itself.
That being said, I think there was also a hierarchical model that was accepted and used, which I find is sometimes overlooked and ignored in favor of emphasizing the democratic processes:
Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — ‘The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher’ — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma and Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.
-DN 16 Maha-parinibbana Sutta: The Great Discourse on the Total Unbinding
You phrased it as “Buddha established the Sangha on the principal of” - I would argue that this hierarchical structure is even more fundamental than the democratic process because the authority of Dhamma-Vinaya seems to overrule and supersede any and all Sanghakamma that goes contrary to it.
For example, the Sangha cannot simply come together and pass a motion, neither on a local level nor on global level, where they simply say, abolish the first four Vinaya rules and allow monastic to engage in sexual intercourse, steal, kill, and lie about their attainments, nor can they come together and agree that from here on forward they will reject the four noble truths.
This is why the democratic model seems secondary to the hierarchical model with regard to the Sangha.
Based on my current understanding, the hierarchy seems to be:
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Dhamma: even the Buddha cannot/does not transgress Dhamma, and say kill, lie, deceive, or any other harmful actions, not even if justified as “skillful means” or “expedient means” to “help others and lead them to enlightenment.”
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Buddha: the Vinaya rules formulated by the Buddha, perhaps except for the minor rules, are not negotiable. The members of the Sangha are to either follow and obey the Dhamma-Vinaya or are to be excluded, expelled, kicked out, ejected, banished, or gotten rid of like trash. The Sangha is not authorized at all to be changing and modifying the Dhamma-Vinaya as they see fit, nor overrule the Buddha - who claimed the epithet “King of the Dhamma,” I think - under any conditions unless explicitly allowed by the Buddha (for example, the minor Vinaya rules).
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Sangha: I think we agree that there seems to be a relatively complete democratic and egalitarian structure in the Sangha. But that argument seems specific to the Sangha. But even here, there seems to be somewhat of an hierarchy:
"At present, the monks address one another as ‘friend,’ but after I am gone they are not to address one another that way. The more senior monks are to address the newer monks by their name or clan or as ‘friend.’ The newer monks are to address the more senior monks as ‘venerable’ or ‘sir.’
Conclusion: I think both democratic and hierarchical models are accepted and used to the extent that they are harmless, beneficial, and suitable to do so.
First I would like to than all contributors for making this a most enlightening discussion . Some thoughts from this unenlightened being:
I too find it important and most challenging to understand and forgive a man with such low ethical and moral standards. He is not evil. He is the product of a degraded political system which has allowed a person like him to be elected. You say he is doing his best, and perhaps you are correct although at what cannot be stated. His desires as expressed through his ‘twittering decrees’ seem quarrelsome and intended to cause harm to the people…the country, and the ecology.
The same could be said of Germany’s Hitler. Yet he exists as president as the result of a uneducated reactionary population…one that consistently favors wealthy white men, just as in fascist Germany.
Thank you as this is precisely the point I have been espousing for years. This so called republic has been slowly, silently modified over the years to the point where it produced such an aberrant personality.
I know you are referring to the sangha in this, but I do think that it relevant to the topic that I posted. This hierarchical model would be acceptable if it did not contain monetary rewards as one ascends upward through layers of power thereby encouraging the promotion of sociopathic personalities.
The horizontal model was the original intent of communism, where every one, regardless of the qualifiers like race, sex, and money, had an equal vote. Yet that experiment also failed. And the consistent failure of a variety of these systems and institutions makes me wonder if our human character is disintegrating over time?
I’m voting BUDDHA FOR PRESIDENT! 
With Metta for you all!
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Thanks everyone once again for staying civil and connected.
Anne, I understand, and I often feel the same way. And I often feel alone and worried, that the solution is so clear and obvious, yet we simply do not do it. In these times, we will all have different responses, and our own responses will change. There is, I think, no one right way to respond. And so we must be as forgiving to our own state of mind as we are to others.
maybe make a separate thread for this.
If I may, I’ll just drop in here one of the most informed and intelligent commentaries on the situation with the current incumbent of 1600 Penn. She makes a compelling case that we will continue to misconstrue what is happening if we ignore the advice of mental health professionals.
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Sabbe sattā bhavantu sukhi-tattā
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You pointed directly at the real problem with my country…and perhaps the global politik in general. Or perhaps it is a human problem that we often lack the ability to step outside of our frame of reference to critically assess our own equilibrium. In almost any other profession, Trump would have been fired for malfeasance among many other egregious acts typical of a pathological narcissist . In a sane political scenario any leader who displays the pathological tendencies seen in Trump who be called upon to submit to a battery of psychological tests in order to ascertain his ability to function as a leader of the people.
As it stands now a majority of my people in country know that the emperor wears no clothes but don’t know how to handle the knowledge. So the machine rolls on.
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Dear Rosie,
Hello! Much respect for your understanding and whatever way you choose as being right for your heart.
I come back to a saying of Ajahn Brahm’s: if there’s something you can do, do it; if there’s nothing you can do, then do nothing.
I think all systems and ideologies are flawed because we are. There bound to decine.
But if there’s some small thing to be done to reduce the harm in this world, perhaps, without any hope or expectation, it is worth doing. At least we know our intention is pure.
I want to post some links but might link them to some new topics so they don’t get lost at the end of a long thread. But dear @moderators, if you deem them inappropriate topics, please feel free to remove or lock them. 
Much love Rosie
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Much Love to my dear Kay! 
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And so we should continue, while giving ourselves restorative breaks, to hold all our leaders’ feet to the metaphorical fire.
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On further reflection, I considered, how have I been able to find this fresh way of engaging in social and political work which feels so spacious and supportive of my practice?
Three reasons…
Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha!
Oh…and another eight…you know the ones. 
Much metta to you Rosie. 
Your heart speaks to mine in joyful notes, Metta …Love…Peace, Anne
I maintain that we are all doing our best, including Donald Trump. My practice is to forgive everyone, including Donald Trump.
The fact that we are all doing our best at our level of awareness (level of consciousness) is a very important realization if we are to forgive ourselves, forgive others and forgive the world.
What is Trump doing his best at? He, like everyone else, is trying his best to find happiness. All of his actions, public and private are governed by that. This is true of all of us.
Our ability to skillfully let go of the causes of suffering and find true happiness depends on our level of consciousness, our ability to see clearly things as they are. For those of us fortunate enough to have found the Noble Eightfold Path, this includes bringing to the light of awareness that which was previously hidden and unconscious. To the extent that we do that, we find freedom. We also find our natural sources of universal love and compassion.
For those to whom the avenue of awareness has yet to be discovered, life is all about finding pleasure and avoiding the unpleasant. When people operate mostly from unconscious compulsion, life is based on the poisons of the mind, namely attachment, aversion, and ignorance. All private and political actions based on such unconsciousness will be flavored with those unskillful states of mind, and in the case of political decisions, we will all suffer the consequences.
What do I mean by forgiveness? I take it to be an understanding that most peoples’ actions are unfolding due to dependent origination. That is, we are usually unconscious of what we are doing, feeling, thinking, imagining. Our lives are unfolding automatically and impersonally. There is no freedom. It is mostly guided by unconscious compulsions.
How can I blame myself for my own past actions committed due to such unconsciousness? How can I blame others for what they have done to me when hypnotized by negative mind states? There is no blame. The blame game is rooted in ego: “I am a victim”, “You made me angry”.
Yes, we are advised to reflect on the mistakes of the past and clean up our act, and to set a positive course in our lives. We have no control over what others do. We can only forgive, forgive, forgive. This world is not here to live up to our expectations.
I can forgive the world but at the same time attempt to contribute to its upliftment. Of course, we help and serve others when we can. I will be voting in the upcoming election. In my discussions with others, I will be participating in highlighting the important social and political issues facing my country and the world.
The Buddha didn’t expect much of samsara, but he never gave up on trying to help all beings who are caught in cyclic existence. Amidst our peace and equanimity, we take compassionate action as required.
with metta and smiles
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