Remembering that parents cheered the little ones to be intimate by kissing on the month, and can recall now that it felt as being forced to do sonething that in my childish mind was wrong, and when one finally gave in, the grown ups laughed together, and one felt like an idiot … guess it’s sexual harassment
When all else fails, there’s Ceiling Cat:
…and God (allegedly):
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I just wanted to raise a final point with regard to this statement.
One of the reasons for this reluctance to raise these issues is that more often than not, in mixed company, women end up in a position of having to defend their experiences… It is hard for many males (not being personal but general here) to believe/accept the everyday experiences of many women… especially if they themselves do not engage in it.
But this extra level of criticism and often aggressive questioning or doubting of women who share details of their experiences is enough to deter any openness and sharing.
Anyway, enough from me on this.
Metta, to all, and may all beings be free of suffering and experience liberation.
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I appreciate the humour, and light heartedness. 
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Really interesting study. Sexual arousal seems to repress disgust and that seems quite fitting evolutionarily, considering the “playground” is right around the corner from the “sewage center”.
@Subharo mentioned The Selfish Gene, that was also tremendously impactful on me. Just considering the gene point-point-of-view can transform your thinking about many matters.
I also know many men experience “post orgasm regret/disgust”, especially in the case of pornography assisted ejaculation. The same imagery which was once arousing becomes disgusting. Perhaps it is a moment of seeing more clearly, seeing the asubha as asubha, as it were.
Pornography usage is not uncommon amongst women in this internet age though still lower than male consumption. There might be a similar post-orgasm phenomenon for women?
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@mpac I am blown away by your strength and resilience. I am so sorry for what you have suffered (as you described), but I stand all the more in admiration fo you for your strength and your voice. May the merit you have acquired by your strength and resilience bring you much wellness, happiness, and peace…you are an inspiration.
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Why assume either emotional response is more objective than the other?
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That’s a good question, the sutta reference Erik posted:
In the suttas though, the perception practices don’t seem aimed at anything ontological - more empirical really. So I guess I would say more “correct” for the aim of Buddhist practice.
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Truly, it is nothing extra-ordinary.
These types of experiences are extremely common, that is my point. In fact among my varied aquaintance, an absence of some form of these experiences is a rarity.
The best Lesson for me, and addressing the OP, is that suffering ALWAYS results in opportunity to practice the N8fp, for insight, for over-comming hindrances and fetters. In most ways the experiences themselves are irrelevent
While what we experience in Samsara is out of our ‘control’, our response to it is what counts 
We experince the fruits of past Kamma, and have an opportunity on what Kamma we make
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If both responses are valid, and have a certain truth to them then considering they are opposite of each other, we have to discard both, rather than choose one. This means we are left with the ‘stuff’, and that stuff is impermanent but can lead to 20+ years of time and expense, including childcare, of which I don’t intend to return to. We have now seen the attraction (asvada) the downside (adinava), and release (nissarana) that is through letting go.
With metta
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“Mendicants, females die without getting enough of two things. What two? Sexual intercourse and giving birth. Females die without getting enough of these two things.”
an2.52-63
“Mendicants, there are these five drawbacks of a black snake. What five? It’s angry, hostile, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. These are the five dangers of a black snake.
In the same way there are five drawbacks of a female. What five? She’s angry, hostile, venomous, fork-tongued, and treacherous. This is a female’s venom: usually she’s very lustful. This is a female’s forked tongue: usually she speaks divisively. This is a female’s treachery: usually she’s an adulteress. These are the five drawbacks of a female.”
an5.230
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I think there is a rather famous quote from Ven Śāntideva comparing a woman’s genitals to the open mouth of a poisonous snake, saying it would be better to put one’s male sex in such an open mouth than a woman’s orifice. More in the way of the above.
Greetings Thang,
Given that this is a highly emotive topic, it is one where extra care needs to be taken with regard to right speech, in particular not to cause divisiveness or harm to any member of the forum, now and future who may read it. Remember posts become a permanent record, and there are many ‘silent’ users of the forum, who read but do not post.
Do you have a question stemming from the long discussion in this thread that has not already been talked about in the above 90 responses? Otherwise, re-posting these few excerpts seems to exacerbate the divisiveness that can occur, rather than promote deeper understanding and harmony. As it stands, and in the context of this thread, I would classify it as unhelpful to our community. I am bringing this to your attention, so that you are aware of the guidelines and expectations of this community
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Actually I didn’t know this was a highly emotive topic. Sorry for any inconvenience occurred.
I just started reading from the beginning and replied to 6th post as I remember.
It’s a good thing, but it doesn’t seem I was properly monitored.
It was bit surprising to me to hear about a divisiveness. But now I can guess what is going on.
Anyway, sorry for any inconvenience occurred.
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No problems 
and thank-you for your understanding
I do this so many times. Start reading a thread, reply to the second comment, then realize the thread is years old sometimes even!
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Ven Śāntideva got it from the Buddha speaking in the vinaya. From the origin story to the 1st parajika:
It would be better, foolish man, for your penis to enter the mouth of a terrible and poisonous snake than to enter a woman. It would be better for your penis to enter the mouth of a black snake than to enter a woman. It would be better for your penis to enter a blazing charcoal pit than to enter a woman. Why is that? Because for that reason, you might die or experience death-like suffering, but you wouldn’t because of that be reborn in a bad destination. But for this reason you might. Foolish man, you have practiced what is contrary to the true Teaching, the common practice, the low practice, the coarse practice, that which ends with a wash, that which is done in private, that which is done wherever there are couples. You are the forerunner, the first performer of many unwholesome things. - The First Training Rule- Bhikkhu Brahmali
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Reminds me of Migasālopāsikā.
Kā cānanda, migasālā upāsikā bālā abyattā ammakā ammakapaññā
Perhaps Migasālopāsikā read too much vinaya, he said jokingly.
Yes these are interesting quotes; I am not sure how often these opinions appear in the suttas though and so whether they are representative of the Buddha’s thoughts on this.
I also found in Ajahn Tate’s biography (he was Ajahn Brahm’s favourite monk I believe) some remarks which seem critical of women, in this chapter:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/thate/thateauto.html#ch19.1
For example he writes:
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I find it very embarrassing and I don’t want bluntly to declare that women pose a threat to the brahmacariya — after all, my mother was a woman and the Buddhist Teachings under whose cool shade I take shelter is still primarily dependent on the dedicated support of women. In the Buddha’s time the lay woman, the Lady Visakha, was widely renowned as one of the pre-eminent devotees (Mahaa-upaasikaa) of the Buddha’s Teaching. Nevertheless, when the Buddha cautioned his close disciples to be circumspect about their life of brahmacariya, for the most part he would warn them to remain vigilant concerning the opposite sex. Take for example, one of the final sayings of the Lord Buddha. He was replying to Venerable Ananda’s[109] questions about how a monk should conduct himself with a woman after the Lord Buddha had finally passed away into Nibbana: “Not to see or hear them is good and safe; while if there is contact then don’t become too close or chat with them; while if it becomes necessary to speak with them make sure that you take care and restrain your mind.”
So in this passage he considered women as valuable because they are the main supporters of monastics, but he also thinks that they pose a threat to the monks life of Brahmacariya. However he also added:
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For women who would train their hearts to a purity that transcends all suffering, they should contemplate the dangers of the opposite sex, the male, which forms their object of desire.[110] By seeing the fault and harm in this they will also come to dispassion. As with the Elder Upalava.n.na Bhikkhunii[111] who once declared something to the effect that: “I have seen the harm of all sensual desires. Whenever sensual desire besets someone’s heart, it obscures and blinds them — a father then becomes capable even of sleeping with his own daughter.”
Which adds a different perspective to his position.
Anyway, if you want to be objective (as a scientist I try to be) and honest, and start from the texts rather than from a preconceived option, I would say it is indeed a difficult subject.
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IMO the EBTs are remarkably non-sexist for religious material. It’s literally something like 1 or 2 suttas among thousands.
On the flip side, there’s tons of stuff about nuns and important female lay-followers, there’s nuns teaching munks, and so on.
I’d hate to see anyone get discouraged by one or two suttas when the overall picture is so different.
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