Bring the happiness that most people only dream about: tell us our mistakes

[sujato]

@Danny

passambhayaṁ kāyasaṅkhāraṁ = stilling the body’s motion (MN118)
passambhayaṁ kāyasaṅkhāraṁ = stilling physical processes (SN54)

Yes, this is a mistake, use “physical process”.

@Danny

“They practice breathing in experiencing these emotions. They practice breathing out experiencing these emotions.” (MN118)

They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in experiencing mental processes.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out experiencing mental processes.’ (SN54)

Use “mental process”

Sometimes i try out a new rendering to see how it works, and I think I’ve standardized it later, but well.

@sabbamitta

I believe the word “imminent” should be replaced by “immanent”.

Yes, good catch.

@sabbamitta

Linked Discourses 45.104–108. The same for SN 45.110–114 and SN 45.116–120.

Thanks! I think I have all these now!

@sabbamitta

In some files the segments are “debaked”

Hmm, you’re right, I thought these were all done. Turns out there are a few of them! I’ve made a new list of debakable suttas, I’ll do it when I get the chance.

debaking round 2!

@AdrianMagno

Bhante, should this be ‘and’

Yes, I’ve changed it. English is a bit weird when it comes to “and” and “or” when they are negated. But regardless, it should be consistent.

@sabbamitta

Links like this <a class='ref' href='/dn1#2'>DN 1:2</a> lead into nowhere land

Hmm, I have fixed all similar issues in the essays. We’ll wait till the data is updated, I am not 100% sure how they will be processed, but I think they should work.

@sabbamitta

And in Bilara the extra item in the ToC is still not there for translation.

I’m asking Hongda to do this one, as it messes with the translation and localization files.

@sabbamitta

Should it be " the emotional aspects of the spiritual path"?

Yes, fixed.

@sabbamitta

sometimes translated “dismayed”, sometimes “embarrassed”.

Use “dismayed”.

@sabbamitta

I saw you have changed “irrefutable and impeccable in questions of ancestry” to “with irrefutable and impeccable genealogy”; but in AN 5.192 there are still two cases of “incontestable and irreproachable in questions of ancestry”, probably from an earlier version.

Thanks, fixed.

@sabbamitta

In several Suttas there is a person named Upavāṇa (with underdot). In SN 46.8 we encounter the name Upavāna (without underdot). Is this a different person, or just a spelling variant?

Both forms are found in the Pali. It seems, however, it’s the same person, at least the DPPN has only one entry. He’s mostly known as a carer, who was fanning the Buddha in DN 16. Thus his name is probably upa (close) vāna (breeze), so we should spell Upavāna.

@sabbamitta

It’s the Samyutta on the 7 awakening factors, not the eightfold path.

Thanks. Also “rise” should be “arise”.

@sabbamitta

Nothing is as effective as getting rid of fetters as the awakening factors.

Probably “for getting rid of fetters”.

Indeed.

@sabbamitta

There are several Suttas that follow this pattern. In Pali, sometimes aṭṭhaṅgiko is included in the second part of the phrase, sometimes not. The English translation never has it, but always has “has missed out on the noble path to the complete ending of suffering”.

Here I am following BB’s suggestion:

Though all three eds. have aṭṭhaṅgiko here, I suggest deleting it to bring the wording into conformity with 46:18, 47:33, and 51:2.

@sabbamitta

There is no ayoniso in the Pali, so probably no “improperly” required. The same further down with yoniso and “properly”.

Huh, fixed.

@sabbamitta

Aparihāniyā dhammā is sometimes translated as “qualities”, sometimes as “principles”; sometimes they “prevent decline”, sometimes they “guard against decline”.

principles that prevent decline

@sabbamitta

It’s samma samadhi, so “right samadhi”. The same is the case in AN 5.23.

Use “rightly immerse in samādhi”

@sabbamitta

Aparihāna is mostly translated as “non-decline”, but in SN 46.36 (and elsewhere?) it’s “progress”.

Yeah, in that context “progress” fits better, “growth and non-decline” is weird. (In fact i am tempted to use “progress” everywhere …)

@sabbamitta

Closing quote mark lacking.

fixed, ta.

@sabbamitta

SN 46.38 has no opening quote marks at the beginning, but has closing quote marks at the end. It seems the Mahasangiti also lacks the opening quotes.

Hmm, fixed.

@sabbamitta

It’s a noble disciple, not a mendicant who pays heed.

right, and I found similar cases in an7.4, an5.2, an5.14, an9.4, mn106, sn48.9, sn48.10

@sabbamitta

Assattha is sometimes translated as “bodhi tree”, sometimes as “peepul tree”.

Use “peepal”.

@sabbamitta

under kapiṭhana we find a hint to thespesia populneoides.

Okay, let’s call it “portia tree”.

@sabbamitta

I think I’ve been standing under such a tree in Sydney!

Oh definitely, if I were a Buddha in Australian, that’s where I’d sit!

@M_Asunta

In the Suttacentral Editions version of Linked Discourses the introduction has wrong books

Thanks, well spotted! The problem comes from the conversion of the markup. I’ve fixed it and it should appear when they are updated (which is on Mondays).

@sabbamitta

so I think the title should be translated “With Abhaya”.

Indeed yes.

@sabbamitta

“untrue, false, and pointless”

use “pointless”

@Danny

maybe ‘not looking forward’?

Indeed, yes.

@sabbamitta

Pali has no ti at the end of sections, although the sense should be exactly the same as in SN 46.57. English translation has quote marks in some sections and in others it hasn’t.

Hmm, it’s a tricky one to get right. The difference is that in 46.76, the abbreviated terms are treated as a cluster, which are then repeated at the end of the sutta. In these cases it is not possible to really identify individual suttas; it’s pre-mixed. So I’ll leave it.

@sabbamitta

Phāsuvihāra is translated “great comfort” in SN 46.57 and “great ease” in SN 46.76.

Use “ease”.

@AdrianMagno

I think it needs to be earth to be consistent with the rest of the paragraph

No, that’s correct. It’s describing a flood: The water rises up and covers the earth.

@sabbamitta

This is for SN 48.7; but this Sutta speaks in terms of gratification, drawback, and escape.

The same for the blurb to SN 48.29 and SN 48.34.

Thanks, fixed.

@sabbamitta

It’s a noble disciple, not a mendicant. The same in the following Sutta.

fixed per list above.

@sabbamitta

No new quote marks here. The Buddha continues speaking from the previous segment.

Thanks, fixed.

@sabbamitta

Kāmabhogī is translated “pleasure seeker”

Use pleasure seeker

@sabbamitta

It’s probably the deer park.

Oops!

@sabbamitta

No new quote marks needed. The Buddha continues speaking from the previous segment.

Indeed, thanks.

@sabbamitta

“destination, apex, fruit, and culmination” in SN 48.53 and “destination, apex, fruit, and end”

culmination

@sabbamitta

This Sutta has “sn48.83-92” in the URL, and so has the English translation. But the Pali has SN 48.83. I think it should also have “83-92”,

thx, fixed.

@sabbamitta

The title, btw, should be “the chapter on diligence” which is what it says in the “names” file

We take the names in the texts by preference, so it should be there, I have added it.

@sabbamitta

Or actually, there are two titles in the “names” file, as is the case for many others too:

Umm, I think these are different instances of the same title. Anyway, it doesn’t matter too much.

@sabbamitta

The same problems for the following chapters.

I think I have fixed these all.

@Brahmali

Now my question is about “expect only what’s given”, which renders dinnapāṭikaṅkhī. What exactly is this supposed to mean? Does it mean that as a monastic you expect to be given stuff (while avoiding stealing)?

I think that’s an uncharitable reading of the English. To say “I expect only what is given” is not to say “I expect to be given things”. The “only” is privative, in double negative it means, “I do not expect anything that is not given”, or in other words, “I would never even think of stealing something”.

@Brahmali

an extension of non-theft to the realm of the mind

I agree, I think it’s similar to theyyasaṅkhāta in the Vinaya rule. I dunno, I feel it’s fine as is.

[Brahmali]

@sujato

I think that’s an uncharitable reading of the English.

It’s just what I see when I read it. Perhaps this is what happens when English is not your native language.

[Khemarato.bhikkhu]

For what it’s worth it also trips me up.

Perhaps because “Expect” is a future-oriented verb. “Given” past-oriented. The juxtaposition scrambles my brain: “Am I to be psychic? To expect exactly what will be given?”

@sujato

stealing

I don’t understand how to get from “expect” to “steal” Those feel far apart to me. I guess you meant “expect only what is given” in the sense of “not feeling entitled to more than what was given”?

[AdrianMagno]

@sujato

No, that’s correct. It’s describing a flood: The water rises up and covers the earth.

Excellent! Thanks for clarifying Bhante

[sujato]

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

“expect only what is given” in the sense of “not feeling entitled to more than what was given”?

Exactly. I feel like it’s a pretty standard English construction. I’m happy to change it, but so far I haven’t liked the alternatives.

[Khemarato.bhikkhu]

@sujato

Exactly

Then maybe just say that? Why not just translate it as “not feeling entitled to more than what was given”?

For what it’s worth I’m fairly well-read in English and while I was capable of parsing out your meaning, it certainly wasn’t obvious

[sujato]

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

Why not just translate it as “not feeling entitled to more than what was given”?

Maybe, it feels clunky though.

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

it certainly wasn’t obvious

I feel like the English phrase is no more or less obvious than the Pali dinnādāyī dinnapāṭikaṅkhī; it’s elegant and chiming, not ponderous and explicated.

[sabbamitta]

Thanks for all these corrections and explanations!

@sujato

@sabbamitta

“untrue, false, and pointless”

use “pointless”

There are still the other cases of “true and correct, but harmful” in MN 58 and MN 139, and “true, correct, and beneficial” in MN 58, MN 139, and DN 29. Maybe they too need some changing?

Maybe it’s because of “beneficial” that "harmful has come in as its opposite? What is the opposite of pointless?

@sujato

@sabbamitta

“destination, apex, fruit, and culmination” in SN 48.53 and “destination, apex, fruit, and end”

culmination

While reviewing this for German I come across

SN45.180:2.8: amatogadhaṁ amataparāyanaṁ amatapariyosānaṁ …
“… which culminate, finish, and end in the deathless …”
SN45.180:2.9: nibbānaninnaṁ nibbānapoṇaṁ nibbānapabbhāraṁ.
“… which have extinguishment as their culmination, destination, and end.

Segment 2.8 has again another variant translation for gadha, parāya, pariyosāna. In German I have a mess there too.

(Does it have to be always consistent? :TRIPLE_SIGH:)

Segment 2.9 should rather be “which slant, slope, and incline to extinguishment”.

---

I saw you changed “Bhoganagara” into “Bhoga City”, but this one escaped:

DN16:4.13.1: Atha kho bhagavā bhoganagare yathābhirantaṁ viharitvā āyasmantaṁ ānandaṁ āmantesi:
DN16:4.13.1: When the Buddha had stayed in Bhoganagara as long as he pleased, he addressed Ānanda,

Similarly, in the “AN names” file the first chapter of the Fours is still called “The Chapter at Bhaṇḍa Village” instead of “Wares Village”—this one makes a nice name in German, as “Warendorf” refers to a real place name.

[sabbamitta]

SN51.28:1.1: Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho āyasmantaṁ ānandaṁ bhagavā etadavoca:
The Buddha said to him:

This is the start of the Sutta. Maybe just mention that the Buddha speaks to Ven. Ānanda? “The Buddha said to Venerable Ānanda: …”

---

SN51.33-44:2.1: Evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu cattāro iddhipāde bhāvento cattāro iddhipāde bahulīkaronto nibbānaninno hoti nibbānapoṇo nibbānapabbhāro”ti.
In the same way, a mendicant who develops and cultivates the four bases of psychic power slants, slopes, and inclines to extinguishment.”

I think it’s “In this way, a mendicant who develops …”

---

The second chapter of SN 52 is usually called “A Thousand” in the Sutta files (which corresponds to a variant reading), but in SN 52.22 it is called “Chapter two” (which is the reading in the Mahasangiti). The “names” file also has “Chapter two”.

The website shows “A Thousand”, except for SN 52.22 where it has “Chapter Two”.

---

For mindfulness of breathing there are two different modes of translating the steps that have the “historical future” in Pali:

1. They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in experiencing the whole body.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out experiencing the whole body.’—We find this version in SN 54 (as far as I could see; I didn’t check them all).
2. They practice breathing in experiencing the whole body. They practice breathing out experiencing the whole body.—We find this version in MN 10, DN 22, AN 10.60, MN 118, MN 119, MN 62.

I hope I found them all.

Note that in Pali we sometimes find the spelling sabbakāyapaṭisaṁvedī (with single “p”), and sometimes sabbakāyappaṭisaṁvedī (with double “p”)—which could be the reason why some Suttas escaped when you made the change from one version to the other.

---

Blurb to SN 54.4:

Breath meditation is very beneficial. When developed it leads to perfection or once-return.

It’s non-return, not once-return.

---

Blurb to SN 54.8:

Before his awakening the Buddha generally practiced breath meditation, which kept him alert and peaceful and let to the ending of defilements. One who wishes for any of the higher fruits of the renunciate life should practice the same way.

Should be “led to the ending of defilements”.

---

SN54.8:4.2: ‘neva me kāyo kilameyya na cakkhūni, anupādāya ca me āsavehi cittaṁ vimucceyyā’ti,
‘May neither my body nor my eyes became fatigued. And may my mind be freed from grasping without defilements.’

Hmm … I think this should be “may my mind be freed from defilements by not grasping”???

SN54.8:20.1: Evaṁ bhāvite kho, bhikkhave, ānāpānassatisamādhimhi evaṁ bahulīkate, sukhañce vedanaṁ vedayati, sā ‘aniccā’ti pajānāti, ‘anajjhositā’ti pajānāti, ‘anabhinanditā’ti pajānāti;
When mindfulness of breathing has been developed and cultivated in this way, if they feel a pleasant feeling, they understand that it’s impermanent, that they’re not attached to it, and that they don’t take pleasure in it.

It’s “immersion due to mindfulness of breathing”.

---

SN54.10:5.1: Yasmiṁ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu dīghaṁ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṁ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṁ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṁ passasāmī’ti pajānāti;
When a mendicant is breathing in heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing in heavily.’ When breathing out heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing out heavily.’

Yasmiṁ samaye is translated “when” here and “there’s a time when” on later occasions in the same Sutta.

[Jhana4]

Now at that time two renunciates—the wanderer Muṇḍiya and Jāliya, the pupil of the wood-bowl ascetic

Should “pupil” be “pupils” as in two people, not one person?

DN 7: SuttaCentral

[trusolo]

The first one is just a wanderer, the second one is a disciple of a specific teacher.

[sabbamitta]

The shrine named bahuputta is translated “Many Sons shrine” in DN 16:3.46.3, but left with the Pali name elsewhere.

---

Venerable Moggallana is still living on for the eon, it seems:

SN21.3:4.3: Āyasmā hi mahāmoggallāno mahiddhiko mahānubhāvo ākaṅkhamāno kappaṁ tiṭṭheyyā”ti.
Venerable Mahāmoggallāna is so mighty and powerful he could, if he wished, live on for the eon.”

---

DN14:2.22.1: Atha kho, bhikkhave, vipassī bodhisatto aparena samayena pañcasu upādānakkhandhesu udayabbayānupassī vihāsi:
After some time he withdrew from the group to live alone. The 84,000 went one way, but Vipassī went another.

Before, this segment was:

Some time later Vipassī meditated observing rise and fall in the five grasping aggregates.

Which seems more fitting to the Pali text. But the new translation relates to segment 2.17.3, so it was perhaps mixed up.

---

DN15:20.2: Yehi, ānanda, ākārehi yehi liṅgehi yehi nimittehi yehi uddesehi nāmakāyassa paññatti hoti, tesu ākāresu tesu liṅgesu tesu nimittesu tesu uddesesu asati api nu kho rūpakāye adhivacanasamphasso paññāyethā”ti?
Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the set of mental phenomena known as name is found. Would labeling contact still be found in the category of physical phenomena?”
DN15:20.3: “No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“No, sir.”
DN15:20.4: “Yehi, ānanda, ākārehi yehi liṅgehi yehi nimittehi yehi uddesehi rūpakāyassa paññatti hoti, tesu ākāresu …pe… tesu uddesesu asati api nu kho nāmakāye paṭighasamphasso paññāyethā”ti?
“Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the set of physical phenomena known as form is found. Would impingement contact still be found in the category of mental phenomena?”
DN15:20.5: “No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“No, sir.”

Each time, the first part of the sentence translates kāya as “set”, while the second has “category”.

---

SN35.132:3.1: Dhamme ca jhāne ca ratā ahesuṁ,
Those brahmins who remembered the ancient traditions
SN35.132:3.2: Te brāhmaṇā ye purāṇaṁ saranti.
enjoyed virtue and absorption.

They enjoyed principles and absorption? The text speaks of sīla earlier, but here it’s dhamma.

---

I’ve seen you are using *emphasis* for the different topic headings in DN 33. Asterisks are lacking in segments 1.10.75, and 2.1.58.

---

You removed all the “the … book is finished” sentences from the Thig, but Thig 13.5 still has

The Book of the Twenties is finished.

---

In SN 12.72-81, SN 12.83-92, ans SN 12.93-213 you have added quote marks to each segment. Now the segments start with a quote mark and a lower case letter.

SN12.72-81:2.1: “Bhavaṁ nappajānanti …pe….
“continued existence … ”

This doesn’t look quite correct. Either you should start with a capital letter, or you should put ellipsis in front, I would think.

The same again in SN 17.38-43.

SN17.38-43:1.4: ‘na cāyamāyasmā pitupi hetu …pe…
‘This venerable would not tell a deliberate lie even for the sake of their father. … ’”

In this segment, the closing single quote should go after “father”, and the closing double quote after the ellipsis.

And again similarly in Samyuttas 30 and 33.

---

In SN 47.2 the chapter name has been changed to “In Ambapālī’s Mango Grove”, but in the rest of the chapter it’s still “In Ambapālī’s Wood”.

---

SN48.115-124:0.2: 12. Oghavagga
12. The Chapter on Floods
SN48.115-124:0.3: Oghādisutta
The Chapter on Floods

Segment 0.3 is Oghādisutta, not Oghavagga.

[sabbamitta]

In connection with breath meditation, cittasaṅkhāra is sometimes translated “mental processes”, sometimes “the mental processes”, and in SN 54.13:6.3 it’s just “mind”. I think this may be a confusion with a later step of breath meditation.

---

In SN 54.13, we find in segments 11.2-3:

Yasmiṁ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu tathā sato viharanto taṁ dhammaṁ paññāya pavicinati pavicarati parivīmaṁsamāpajjati—

dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo tasmiṁ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti, dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgaṁ tasmiṁ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti, dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo tasmiṁ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripūriṁ gacchati.

for which the English equivalent is

At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of investigation of principles; they develop it and perfect it.

Similarly for the following awakening factors (for the awakening factor of mindfulness it’s somewhat different, there is only one segment in Pali).

For “investigation of principles” the translation is associated with the second Pali segment, whereas for the other factors it’s associated with the first one.

---

SN55.1:2.9: Imehi catūhi dhammehi samannāgato hoti.
These are the four factors of stream-entry that they have.

It doesn’t say “stream-entry” in the text.

---

The lay follower Dīghāvu seems to be misspelled as “Dhīgāvu” in SN 55.3:1.2 and SN 55.3:1.5.

---

ud2.8:6.2: “ehi tvaṁ, ayyaputta, yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkama; upasaṅkamitvā mama vacanena bhagavato pāde sirasā vandāhi:
“Please, master, go to the Buddha, and in my name bow with your head to his feet. Ask him if he is healthy and well, nimble, strong, and living comfortably.

In this case, there’s no appābādhaṁ appātaṅkaṁ lahuṭṭhānaṁ balaṁ phāsuvihāraṁ puccha in the Pali text.

---

Blurb to SN 55.3:

The lay follower Dīghāvu is ill and he asks for the Buddha to visit. Dīghāvu confirms that he possesses the four factors of stream-entry and in addition six contemplations leading to insight. Yet he is still worried that his close companion will miss him when he dies.

Jotika is not his close companion, but his father.

[Vaddha]

Not a mistake, but wanted to show gratitude for the notes added to the suttas (so far in the DN)! Footnotes and whatnot from the author are always a great addition to the translation. It’s too bad the books won’t come with the footnotes all done. (Future suggestion?)

I did have a suggestion though. On DN 15, I noticed @sujato didn’t add any notes/explanation for the 8 liberations or the section on contact (*nāmarūpapaccayā phasso). I was a bit disappointed; it is always nice to see people’s thoughts on these.

Also, there are various asterisks scattered around that are just blanks / false notes. Not sure if this is for future notes or if its a mistake, but a clean-up of those could be good.

Mettā

[Snowbird]

@Vaddha

Also, there are various asterisks scattered around that are just blanks / false notes. Not sure if this is for future notes or if its a mistake, but a clean-up of those could be good.

It’s always more helpful if you can point out specific problems. Could you share a screenshot of places you think are broken?

And also, always ctrl shift r to refresh the page first.

@Vaddha

it is always nice to see people’s thoughts on these.

Of course Bhante will answer this better, but I believe he is making the footnotes very narrow in terms of opinions. Mostly sticking to clarifying facts if I’m not mistaken.

[sujato]

@Vaddha

wanted to show gratitude for the notes added to the suttas (so far in the DN)!

Thanks! Maybe I should open another thread for feedback on the notes? In fact I will do exactly that!

@Vaddha

there are various asterisks scattered around that are just blanks / false notes

@Snowbird

It’s always more helpful if you can point out specific problems

Thanks, but it’s okay, I’m aware of the problem, we’ll fix it at some point.

@Vaddha

notes/explanation for the 8 liberations or the section on contact

It’s good to get feedback, I am just guessing as to what is useful. I’ll check it out.

[mikenz66]

At the end of AN2.31 we have:

The mind contaminated by greed is not free; and wisdom contaminated by ignorance does not grow.
Rāgupakkiliṭṭhaṁ vā, bhikkhave, cittaṁ na vimuccati, avijjupakkiliṭṭhā vā paññā na bhāvīyati.
In this way, freedom of heart comes from the fading away of greed, while freedom by wisdom comes from the fading away of ignorance.”
Iti kho, bhikkhave, rāgavirāgā cetovimutti, avijjāvirāgā paññāvimuttī”ti.

I can’t comment on the subtleties in translating cittaṁ na vimuccati, and cetovimutti, but on the face of it, using mind in one sentence, and heart in the other sounds confusing.

[michaelh]

AN4.254 is missing an opening quotation mark.

[sabbamitta]

In SN 55.3, the term ahañca tesu dhammesu sandissāmi is translated “I am seen in them” in segment 3.1 and “I embody them” in segment 4.1.

[jin]

In Bhante Sujato translation of MN 21 Simile of the Saw, there is no ‘saw’ in the last simile. This is a bit confusing to me until I read Bhikkhu Bodhi translation.

https://suttacentral.net/mn21/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin