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Can gay or lgbtq people attain arahantship?

What’s the limit of celibacy ?
If I(male) thought of having sex with another male or female, did I still fullfil my celibacy ?

Thanks
Metta :pray::pray:
@sujato ,@brahmali

I maybe wrong but if I am not mistaken lay gay and lgbtq people can still attain once returner fruition

Non returner can only be attained by lay people who are celibate

If I am not mistaken even making sex with animals doesn’t constitute celibacy let alone human

And buddha said intention is kamma too so even sexual thoughts with animals or bestiality will break your celibacy let alone human

And what’s more important is the patimokkha is introduced step by step triggered by specific case

Earlier there’s no ban on bestiality but buddha added it to patimokkha due to a monk did sex with a monkey

If homosexuality and masturbation is common at that time I imagine buddha would explicitly ban those too

The Buddha differentiated sensual thoughts from sensual physical actions. They are not the same. Vows of celibacy only apply to physical actions. If they didn’t there wouldn’t be any monks or nuns in the world, lol. The Buddha never differentiated between sensual thoughts or actions towards the same or opposite gender, though.

Both of those are mentioned in the patimokkha.

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An7.50
Then the brahmin Jāṇussoṇi went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha, “Does Master Gotama claim to be celibate?”

“Brahmin, if anyone should be rightly said to live the celibate life unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred, full and pure, it’s me.”

“But what, Master Gotama, is a break, taint, stain, or mar in celibacy?”

“Firstly, an ascetic or brahmin who claims to be perfectly celibate does not mutually engage in sex with a female. However, they consent to being anointed, massaged, bathed, and rubbed by a female. They enjoy it and like it and find it satisfying. This is a break, taint, stain, or mar in celibacy. This is called one who lives the celibate life impurely, tied to the fetter of sex. They’re not freed from rebirth, old age, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. They’re not freed from suffering, I say.

Furthermore, an ascetic or brahmin who claims to be perfectly celibate does not mutually engage in sex with a female. Nor do they consent to massage and bathing. However, they giggle and play and have fun with females. …

they gaze into a female’s eyes. …

they listen through a wall or rampart to the sound of females laughing or chatting or singing or crying. …

they recall when they used to laugh, chat, and have fun with females …

they see a householder or their child amusing themselves, supplied and provided with the five kinds of sensual stimulation. …

They don’t see a householder or their child amusing themselves, supplied and provided with the five kinds of sensual stimulation. However, they live the celibate life wishing to be reborn in one of the orders of gods. They think: ‘By this precept or observance or mortification or spiritual life, may I become one of the gods!’ They enjoy it and like it and find it satisfying. This is a break, taint, stain, or mar in celibacy. This is called one who lives the celibate life impurely, tied to the fetter of sex. They’re not free from rebirth, old age, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. They’re not free from suffering, I say.

As long as I saw that these seven sexual fetters—or even one of them—had not been given up in me, I didn’t announce my supreme perfect awakening in this world with its gods, Māras, and Brahmās, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, its gods and humans.

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That’s very strong imo even remembering our past laugh with women will destroy our celibacy let alone a sexual thought

That’s crazy hard

The patimokkha is very clear on what is a parajika for a monastic when it comes to sex. It’s the physical action. When that sutta says “perfectly celibate” I don’t think it’s referring to the celibacy of unenlightened beings. Regardless, being LGBTQA+ has no influence on one’s ability to attain arahantship.

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