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Can one lose one's jhana attainment?

In vinaya If we read the devadatta case he had physic power but he lost it due to his bad thought of schism, having physic power implying that he had atleast 4th jhana attainment

Now what I want to know is whether he lost all his jhana attainments or not

And even to attain first jhana you need to be secluded from unskillful qualities while in some suttas they said that wisdom comes from concentration while concentration comes from virtues

Since I am still not convinced by my own opinions I want your opinions friends

I hope you can understand my English I don’t speak English here

I wish you and your family attain the enlightenment

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Although totally anecdotal, I once heard a story where a layman who had attained the 1st jhana lost it after beginning to drink alcohol.

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Is it in sutta or agama ?

It was just something a monk told me once. I believe he was retelling a story he had heard. So there’s no way to prove that it’s true.

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You can’t un-experience an experience of Jhana.

But you can loose the ability to attain it. It is all dependent on conditions…

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It is a bit vague in the exact meaning of “lose” it.
guessing what you mean here -
If one accidentally stumbled into Jhana, i would say it probably is hard to repeat it without a long shot training of mastery.

If you mean if one has mastered Jhana, will one lose the skill to enter 1st Jhana at will - i think you can lose that if conditions are against it. i.e. if one under traumatic emotion or extraordinary physical pain. It is also hard to will into Jhana if one is moving around or conversing.

I don’t think we need sutta to confirm above. Do we.

Just a personal opinion - Jhana is quite tied to kamma. If one is in a mood of hatred, jhana simply is not compatible to be here. Also, some seem to get it easy some are not under same instruction & sit surroundings. I think it is due to their kammic dispositions. Jhana at will requires certain conditions internal & external, it is indeed a conditioned phenomena, thus it is reversible.

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In this sutta Bhikkhu Assaji (it isn’t clear whether this Assaji is the same with Assaji of first five bhikkhus) is said falling away from hist samadhi (jhana) because of his sickness

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I don’t know for sure if Devadatta lost his Jhana attainments in his very life itself. But there’s a very high possibly that he did lose his jhana’s when he lost his physic powers. But he definitely lost his jhana attainments after he died, because he went straight to the apaya’s.

Something for you to keep in mind. The Buddha said, at some points during our sansaric journey we all have attained the highest level of mundane (anariya) attainments. (Highest level of mundane jhana’s). Been to the highest arupa realms. We all also have been to the lowest realms (apaya’s).

Now look where we are now. :slight_smile:

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