Clarifying proliferation & perception in the Honey-Cake Sutta

Essays
1

The Madhupiṇḍika Sutta, MN 18, is one of the most subtle and interesting texts of the whole canon. It was famously the basis of Nyanananda’s seminal Concept and Reality, and has received commentary from pretty much every serious Buddhist teacher since then. Here, as usual in this series, I won’t attempt to delve into the philosophical issues, but to clarify the translation.

The key difficult is the compound papañcasaññāsaṅkhā. Since this is a compound, and is not verbally analyzed, grammar is of limited use, and we must rely on context. The key is to understand the relation between the terms. Since this has been translated many times, I will leave aside former translations and simply explain the logic I use.

Let’s start with what we do know. Saññā is said to “underlie” this process. And in the more detailed explanation below, saññā occurs before papañca in the series. Thus we are on solid ground in treating saññā in this case as a precursor to papañca. They are not equal partners; one leads to the other.

As for saṅkhā, this occurs only at the very end of the sequence. Significantly, it appears only in the same phrase as the purisa, the “person”. The normal sense of saṅkhā is what something is “reckoned” as. It’s not a mere concept in a neutral sense, but an expression of identity. Thus at the end of the sequence, the “person” is beset with such notions of identity, a “self” that persists through the three periods of time.

Hence saññā is subject to a process of papañca whose outcome is the saṅkhā of a self. I therefore suggest translating the phrase:

purisaṃ papañcasaññāsaṅkhā samudācaranti
A person is beset by concepts of identity that emerge from the proliferation of perceptions.

This is basically similar to the first of the alternative translations suggested by Ven Bodhi in his note on this passage.

I have translated thusly the extended passage in Mahākaccāna’s explanation :

Eye consciousness arises dependent on the eye and sights. The meeting of the three is contact. Contact is a condition for feeling. What you feel, you perceive. What you perceive, you think about. What you think about, you proliferate. What you proliferate about is the source from which a person is beset by concepts of identity that emerge from the proliferation of perceptions. This occurs with respect to sights cognizable by the eye in the past, future, and present.

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2

This essay went from Honeyball to Honey-Cake? I always wondered how a ball of honey was constructed. I tried to track down the Pali in the MN 18 but couldn’t find the reference to the honeyball or honeycake. I can picture a honey cake, but can’t imagine how honey could be constructed into a ball, unless the beeswax was included. Maybe I’m overthinking this one.

3

Yes, I prefer honey-cake, and corrected the title accordingly. Technically, it’s “honey-lump”. I imagine it refers to something like gulab jamun.

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4

well, the literal translation of the word “pindu” would be " lumps". in sinhala, (which is my native language)" kiri pindu " means lumps of milkrice. so, madu = honey and "pindu= lumps. sinhala is a language that derived from sanskrit and it was also intensively affected with pali literature. and i’m sure that this word " pindu " in pali has a similar meaning. but , i still prefer “honey cake” rather than " lump of honey "because it makes sense. :slight_smile:

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5

I like it since Nyanananda’s Concept and Reality seems to make ‘concepts’ a problem. At least for me, Buddhism states ignorance, craving, attachment, identity, etc, are problems rather than concepts per se. If concepts were an inherent problem, every word we write would be a problem.

I get the impression MN 1 is often treated in the same way although MN 1 is much more overt in identifying ‘self-view’ as the problem than MN 18.

:seedling:

6

I agree that Pindu mean lump.
We use our right hand to eat rice.
So when we feed small children by hand .
We make it to a Pindu (ball) so it is easy to insert to child’s mouth.
So I think ball is more appropriate translation than cake.
Honey get hardened so to eat you have to make it to a ball using fingers.

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7

When Buddha was enlightened his first meal was provided by Sujatha (a female).
That meal was called "Kiri Pindu) Milk ?? (ball or cake).
In any case, to me honey ball sound better than honey cake.
This is a result of my Sankhara.

By the way why Buddha named this Sutta as Honey Ball?
What is the relation?

8

We can thank Venerable Ananda for that.

[quote=" Ven Bodhi’s translation of MN 18]When this was said, the venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, just as if a man exhausted by hunger and weakness came upon a honeyball, wherever he would taste it he would find a sweet delectable flavour; so too, venerable sir, any able-minded bhikkhu, wherever he might scrutinize with wisdom the meaning of this discourse on the Dhamma, would find satisfaction and confidence of mind. Venerable sir, what is the name of this discourse on the Dhamma?”

“As to that, Ananda, you may remember this discourse on the Dhamma as ‘The Honeyball Discourse.’”[/quote]

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9

Unfortunately, the word “honeyball” has a variety of meanings if googled (which I did yesterday), including some that are not to be discussed in polite (or intelligent) company. Thus, if a word drifts into the gutter of the urban vernacular so deeply, better to not use it. Sorry to make this point, but it’s probably a point worth noting in translation in a world that has devalued language and corrupted certain words.

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10

Definition of a cake:

an item of soft sweet food made from a mixture of flour, fat, eggs, sugar, and other ingredients, baked and sometimes iced or decorated.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cake+meaning&gws_rd=cr&ei=wr1ZWLnROsW10gT44JvQDA

11

When this was said, the venerable thread-goers said to the Blessed Admin: “Venerable sir, just as if a man exhausted by hunger and weakness came upon a subtle translation issue, wherever he would taste it he would find a sweet delectable flavour; so too, venerable sir, any able-minded forum member, wherever he might scrutinize with wisdom the meaning of this thread, would find satisfaction and confidence of mind. Venerable sir, what is the name of this thread?”

“As to that, thread-goers, you may remember this thread as ‘The Prolific Clarificatory Discourse.’”

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12

[quote=“sujato, post:1, topic:3855”]

In Sri Lanka there is the word " Sankya" which literally means number. I guess that this word has its root in the Pali word Sankha. And the word “reckon” is pretty close in meaning to number.

Bhante, I am just wondering if this information will help you in arriving at a even better translation than “identity”.

With Metta

13

“The source, through which perceptions and notions, produced by mental proliferations, harass man”, refers to nama-rupa, the “interface” that keeps consciousness conditioned and therefore it connected to the Samsara. Nama are here notions and Rupa perceptions.
Complete enlightenment occurs when you detach nama-rupa from consciousness. This sutta is a corollary of the Mahanidana Sutta where this is explained in detail. There is nothing “mysterious”.
And the explanation of Maha Kaccana is not a good explanation.

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https://buddhistas.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/la-iluminacion-explicada-rapidamente/

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sugar in honey has a tendency of crystallization, that’s when honey becomes solidified (concentrated) and can be formed into a ball or lumped

16

Kiri Pindu making.
Ingredients:
Rice, Green pea, honey,cashew,raising,dates,coconut milk, cinnamon,cloves etc.

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17

I wonder whether Pindu is used to mean bowl.

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18

It seems Pinda means food.
Patha means bowl.
http://www.lakehouse.lk/budusarana/2011/07/14/main_english.asp

Perhaps Pindika, Pinda and pidu has deferent meaning and usage.