SuttaCentral

Commentaries discussion


#1

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#2

But where does it end? Then you’d also have to open it up to the Chinese commentaries, if not its biased towards Theravada…and so on

i feel like they have a lot on their plate as it stands


#3

Could you please list the suttas where this concept appears?


#4

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#5

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#6

Recently a societal characteristic of popularism has emerged, and the current generation of Theravada monk authors is not exempt from that trend. Authors of the previous generation, Bikkhu Bodhi and Thanissaro are not subject to that influence. If you want to maintain the more classical interpretation, then read those older authors.


#7

I’m afraid I don’t see either mention of attainment of arahanship or the term Arahattaphala-samaadhi in this sutta.


#8

Done. :slight_smile:


#9

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#10

Yes the concept of arahattaphalasamādhi is a commentary concept not a sutta concept. In fact the path and fruit moments are also not sutta concepts but an abhidhamma one.


#11

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#12

I’m not 100% sure how i would interpret this particular passage. On the whole, given that it’s a fairly general and non-technical teaching, I would prefer a less specific reading. It seems to me the general sense is that giving to someone who is a practitioner of deep meditation is very fruitful.

But as you say, it is certainly a case where referring to the commentary is helpful. As a general rule, I would always keep the commentaries beside me when translating, and refer to them in any cases of difficulty. This particular context, however, is more of an interpretive difficulty than a translation one.


#13

The limitless aspect is found elsewhere:

What ten? Someone perceives the meditation on universal earth above, below, across, non-dual and limitless [ Katamāni dasa? Pathavīkasiṇameko sañjānātiuddhaṃ adho tiriyaṃ advayaṃ appamāṇaṃ;…]
unlimited… They perceive the meditation on universal water … the meditation on universal fire … the meditation on universal air … the meditation on universal blue … the meditation on universal yellow … the meditation on universal red … the meditation on universal white … the meditation on universal space … They perceive the meditation on universal consciousness above, below, across, non-dual and limitless. These are the ten universal dimensions of meditation.” AN10.25

How can you say the first one equals the arahanth’s fruition attainment? I remember reading Buddha in a previous life by the name of … developing cetovimitti. It didnt lead to nibbana, but lead to merit. ‘Panna’ is the requirement to convert samatha samadhi into nibbana.


#14

Appamāṇa ceto samādhi means Brahmavihara. (Brahmavihara - Wikipedia)

You can see SN 41.7

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It’s when a mendicant meditates spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

Idha, bhante, bhikkhu mettāsahagatena cetasā ekaṃ disaṃ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṃ, tathā tatiyaṃ, tathā catutthaṃ. Iti uddhamadho tiriyaṃ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ mettāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.

They meditate spreading a heart full of compassion …
Karuṇāsahagatena cetasā … pe …

They meditate spreading a heart full of rejoicing …
muditāsahagatena cetasā … pe …

They meditate spreading a heart full of equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

upekkhāsahagatena cetasā ekaṃ disaṃ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṃ, tathā tatiyaṃ, tathā catutthaṃ. Iti uddhamadho tiriyaṃ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ upekkhāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.

This is called the limitless heart’s release.
Ayaṃ vuccati, bhante, appamāṇā cetovimutti.

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“Appamāṇā ceto vimutti” is translated as “appamāṇa citta samādhi” (appamāṇa ceto samādhi) in Chinese SA 567, according to the Master Yin Shun’s work: 《The Study of Emptiness》(I’m sorry. This book only has Chinese version.) 空之探究-三 空與心解脫 | 印順文教基金會推廣教育中心


#15

It is a general term that can mean different things in context, although to be sure, the standard meaning in the suttas is the brahmaviharas. According to the commentaries, it can also refer to the arahant’s fruition attainment. Whether this is accurate is a genuine question: the nature of this attainment, which was one of the major topics of Nyanandanda’s Concept and Reality, is debatable. Nevertheless, given that the passage involves an interpretative problem, it is worth at least being aware of what the commentary says. Without, however, a more general background in the commentary’s understanding—for example, the fact that in strict Abhidhamma analysis a “fruition” is a specific series on mind-moments—then it would be impossible to really assess the explanation.


#16

There’s panna vimutti and ‘released both-ways’ (ubato vimutti?), which is the first AND the ceto vimutti. Cetomvimutti on its own doesn’t mean arahanthood! During the time of the Buddha I can’t see why Buddhist monks would practice cetovimitti without its counterpart, and therefore someone could choose metta cetovimutti as the vehicle to arahanthood! So it makes sense that this ‘liberation of mind’ (‘liberation by tranquility?’) is both a vehicle for the attainment of enlightenment and to be practiced on its own, as a distinct practice.


#17

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#18

For the record, here is my more detailed opinion about the commentaries:


#19

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#20

Regarding the comparison of SN 41.7 and SA 567, one may read the following book, pp. 51-58:

The Notion of Emptiness in Early Buddhism (by Choong Mun-keat).