Comparing SN 36.11 to SA 474 (ānanda thinks while in dhyāna/jhāna)

Discussion
1

full sutta here:
SA 474 Chinese + english side by side, || to SN 36.11

The famous part where they're almost identical

(9 gradual nirodho/cessations)

atha kho pana, bhikkhu, mayā anu-pubba-saṅkhārānaṃ nirodho akkhāto.
 “And I have also taught the step-by-step cessation of fabrications.
1. paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vācā niruddhā hoti.
 1. When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased.
2. dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vitakka-vicārā niruddhā honti.
 2. When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thought & evaluation have ceased.
3. tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa pīti niruddhā hoti.
 3. When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has ceased.
4. catutthaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa assāsa-passāsā niruddhā honti.
 4. When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased.
5. ākāsānañcāyatanaṃ samāpannassa rūpa-saññā niruddhā hoti.
 5. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has ceased.
6. viññāṇañcāyatanaṃ samāpannassa ākāsānañcāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
 6. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space has ceased.
7. ākiñcaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa viññāṇañcāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
 7. When one has attained the dimension of nothingness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness has ceased.
8. nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa ākiñcaññāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
 8. When one has attained the dimension of neither-perception nor non-perception, the perception of the dimension of nothingness has ceased.
9. saññā-vedayita-nirodhaṃ samāpannassa saññā ca vedanā ca niruddhā honti.
 9. When one has attained the cessation of perception & feeling, perception & feeling have ceased.
khīṇāsavassa bhikkhuno
 When a monk’s effluents have ended,
rāgo niruddho hoti,
 passion has ceased,
doso niruddho hoti,
 aversion has ceased,
moho niruddho hoti.
 delusion has ceased.

The really interesting part in the introduction where the Chinese has thinking, while in jhana, and SN 36.11 does not

rahogata-suttaṃ -Alone (SN 36:11)
(cst4) (thanissaro trans.)
:diamonds: 259. atha kho aññataro bhikkhu yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ abhivādetvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi. ekamantaṃ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṃ etadavoca — “idha mayhaṃ, bhante,

rahogatassa paṭisallīnassa evaṃ cetaso parivitakko udapādi —

‘tisso vedanā vuttā bhagavatā. sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā — imā tisso vedanā vuttā bhagavatā. vuttaṃ kho panetaṃ bhagavatā — ‘yaṃ kiñci vedayitaṃ taṃ dukkhasmin’ti. kiṃ nu kho etaṃ bhagavatā sandhāya bhāsitaṃ — ‘yaṃ kiñci vedayitaṃ taṃ dukkhasmin’”ti?
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One:

“Just now, lord, while I was alone in seclusion, this train of thought arose in my awareness:

‘Three feelings have been spoken of by the Blessed One: a feeling of pleasure, a feeling of pain (stress), & a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain. These are the three feelings spoken of by the Blessed One. But the Blessed One has said: “Whatever is felt comes under stress (pain).” Now in what connection was this stated by the Blessed One: “Whatever is felt comes under stress (pain)?”’”

SA 474: intro, ānanda thinks while in dhyāna

SA 474（四七四） 止息 Saṃyukta Āgama 474 Subsiding
如是我聞：
 Thus have I heard.
一時，佛住王舍城迦蘭陀
 At one time, the Buddha was abiding in Rājagṛha in the Kalandaka
竹園。
 Bamboo Garden.

(while in jhāna, thinking, then emerging)

爾時，尊者阿難獨一靜處
 At that time, Venerable Ānanda was alone in a solitary place,
禪(jhāna) 思(contemplation)，念言：
 contemplating in dhyāna, and thinking,

(3 types of vedana/feelings)

「世尊說
 “The Bhagavān has spoken
三(three) 受(vedana)——
 (of) three (types of) sensations:
樂受、
 sensations of pleasure,
苦受、
 sensations of pain,
不苦不樂受，
 and sensations of neither pleasure nor pain.
又復說諸
 Moreover,
所有受悉皆是苦，
 all of these sensations are spoken of as suffering.
此有何義？」
 What does this mean?”
作是念已，
 After thinking this,
從禪起，
 he arose from dhyāna
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More analysis to come later. But here’s the thing you really want to think about, regardless of whether you think the Chinese parallel is authentic or not.

  1. What is pari-vitakka?
    rahogatassa paṭisallīnassa evaṃ cetaso parivitakko udapādi —
    “Just now, lord, while I was alone in seclusion, this train of thought arose in my awareness:

  2. and what relation does pari-vitakka have to dhamma-vitakka (AN 3.101), and in these two parallel suttas, the vitakka & vicara dropping out in 2nd jhana?

  3. What is the relationship with V&V as vaci-sankhara, and vāca dropping out in first jhana?

B.Sujato trans. of the first and second jhana part, see if it makes sense to you given the above three things:

2.16For someone who has attained the first absorption, speech has ceased. Paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vācā niruddhā hoti.
2.17For someone who has attained the second absorption, the placing of the mind and keeping it connected have ceased. Dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vitakkavicārā niruddhā honti.