Arahants, no matter what they do (and they cannot do evil due to roots of evil eradicated in them), are unentangled regardless.
Arahants, no matter what they do, it’s still considered conditioned. Not just Jhāna is conditioned, teaching too is conditioned. Not doing anything is conditioned. Eating, walking are conditioned.
Arahants can use the dhamma to teach, but are not attached to the dhamma.
deep Jhāna model:
1st Jhāna, 5 sense doors shut down, sensual impingement is let go of.
2nd Jhāna, even initial and sustained application is dropped, the will is let go of.
3rd Jhāna, joy is let go of.
4th Jhāna, happiness is let go of.
infinite space, (perception of) form realm is let go of.
infinite consciousness, (perception of) infinite space is let go of
nothingness, (perception of) infinite consciousness is let go of
neither perception nor non-perception, (perception of) nothingness is let go of.
cessation of perception and feeling, neither perception nor non-perception is let go of. Totally no mind.
Even cessation of perception and feeling is deemed as conditioned, it too is impermanent, despite being basically the highest happiness possible for a living arahant.
All of these are not sensual indulgences, not happiness from sensual pleasures.
Arahants no matter what they do, cannot create new kamma (according to classical theravada), so they are blameless in going into Jhānas.
It seems that I can only repeat, dunno how much you can accept.
As I listed down above, Jhānas are liberating oneself from so many things the deeper one goes. Even joy and happiness are let go of. It’s one thing to be not attached to things, it’s another thing for those things to disappear from experiences.
Arahants are not attached to anything, but 6 sense contacts still function and Jhāna allows for so many experiences to disappear.
part b has been repeated often already, happiness in the here and now.
@NgXinZhao
Venerable Paññadhammika
Can you say what you think the significance of MN52 is?
What is it’s place in the system? What would change if this Sutta did not exist?
Also: How do you think an Arahant uses his freedom? What are the reasons for him to do one thing and not do another?
What system? Ānanda is telling the lay person how to attain to nibbāna in 11 ways.
Not much, so many other suttas says basically the same thing.
He wouldn’t think in terms of self.
Many reasons, depending on the causes and conditions governing the 5 aggregates of the arahant. And the interaction of it with the mind of arahant which doesn’t think in terms of self.
Actually not, I haven’t properly learn the Abhidhamma yet nor read all the commentaries, even the ones helpfully provided by B. Bodhi in his 4 nikaya books.
The point of that is that vipassana, the seeing of conditioned things as impermanent, suffering and not-self can be done on the object of the experiences within Jhānas itself. It can be done on anything. The Jhānas just provide the mind with the power to break through. It’s not necessary that just practising one round of vipassana one can get path and fruition.
The Pa-auk’s book Knowing and seeing details the vipassana path. I haven’t read it. You can go read it for more details.
I dunno why you would think so. Except that you haven’t read all the suttas yet, so somethings still surprises you. Congrats, what a nice emotion to have, surprise!
And how does a mendicant not fume? When there is no concept ‘I am’, there are no concepts ‘I am such’, ‘I am thus’, ‘I am otherwise’; ‘I am fleeting’, ‘I am lasting’; ‘mine’, ‘such is mine’, ‘thus is mine’, ‘otherwise is mine’; ‘also mine’, ‘such is also mine’, ‘thus is also mine’, ‘otherwise is also mine’; ‘I will be’, ‘I will be such’, ‘I will be thus’, ‘I will be otherwise’. That’s how a mendicant doesn’t fume.
“like” is also problematic, for the arahant has eradicated all craving, attachment, doesn’t delight in the world. But there can be also enjoying dhamma discussion, rejoicing in dhamma talk etc, delighting in meditation.
They see all conditioned phenomena as dukkha. Like poisoned drink.
Sn12.66
Suppose there was a bronze cup of beverage that had a nice color, aroma, and flavor. But it was mixed with poison. Then along comes a man struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d say to him: ‘Here, mister, this bronze cup of beverage has a nice color, aroma, and flavor. But it’s mixed with poison. Drink it if you like. If you drink it, its nice color, aroma, and flavor will refresh you. But drinking it will result in death or deadly pain.’ Then that man might think: ‘I could quench my thirst with water, whey, seasoned drink, or broth. But I shouldn’t drink that beverage, for it would be for my lasting harm and suffering.’ He’d reject that beverage. After appraisal, he wouldn’t drink it, and it wouldn’t result in death or deadly pain.
That’s the thinking of people who still enjoy saṁsāra, thinking that there can be real happiness in the world. There’s no real happiness in the world. That’s the meaning of understanding the 1st Noble truth instead of avoiding suffering. Suffering is inherent in conditioned things. That is to be understood. No matter how well we maybe skilful in making saṁsāra into a utopia, got reborn into heaven and heaven again, it’s all temporary, and requires effort to upkeep, and conditioned. Much like marriage needs a lot of effort to maintain or it will break apart. This is where we need to remind these Buddhists to get a grip on the path, not to slack off and be contented with lesser goals.
But having said that, the arahants wouldn’t be seekers of suffering, they would have compassion to help bring about conditions for the happiness of others if they are able to. It not, they have equanimity.
Appreciate our discussion.