Could be Buddhist… but isn’t (post your quotes)

The Princeton slavicist Ilya Vinitsky argues at length (enormous length!) that the quotation is a misattribution – that not only is Dostoyevsky not on record as saying it, but that he wouldn’t have said it, for it’s quite contrary to his actual view of prisons.

An interesting pizza effect:

The irony of history has also seen the Russian writer’s alleged dictum return to Russia. To the best of my knowledge, its first appearance dates back to 1977, when it cropped up in the Russian translation of Howard Zinn’s Postwar America (1973), who credited the words to Dostoyevsky. Characteristically, the famously well-trained Soviet translators smelled the rat and deleted the name of the Russian writer from their rendition.

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Wow. As a Russian translator I feel extremely proud of my Soviet colleagues. Thank you!

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“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

― Omar Khayyám (Rubáiyát)

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Q: What did the Buddha say to the hotdog vendor?
A: Make me one with everything!

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totally AGREEEE WITH THAT!!! all those quotes lead to this ultimate goal, the differences are just in their own presented ways. Liberating from Suffering~

The notion of being one with everything is certainly not a Buddhist thing! And why would a fully awakened Buddha ask a question like that! :rofl:

There’s a YouTube video where a guy tries this joke (pizza version) on the Dalai Lama and it falls flat; the Dalai Lama is nonplussed.

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We must not follow those who advise us to have human thoughts, since we are human, and mortal thoughts, as mortals should; on the contrary, we should try to become immortal as far as is possible and do our utmost to live in accordance with what is highest in us.

Aristotle

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‘The things themselves are equally indifferent, and unstable, and indeterminate, and therefore neither our senses nor our opinions are either true or false. For this reason then we must not trust them, but be without opinions, and without bias, and without wavering, saying of every single thing that it no more is than is not, or both is and is not, or neither is nor is not.’

Phyrro

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“So, according to opinion, these things came into being, and now they exist,
and afterward, having been nurtured, they will end from this state.
And men have placed a distinctive name on each of them.”

"One path only is left for us to
speak of, namely, that It is. In it are very many tokens that
what is, is uncreated and indestructible, alone, complete,
immovable and without end. "

Parmenides

Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Frank Herbert - Dune

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From a philosophical paper analysing Plato’s Republic:

“What is the meaning of this problem, the solution of which Plato proposes as the highest aim of philosophy—to ascend to the unconditioned, and thence to deduce the universe of conditioned existence?” The problem has assumed different forms at different times: at present we must content ourselves with stating it in that in which it will most naturally suggest itself to a student of modern philosophy, and in which it has the most direct bearing on the subject of the present article.

All consciousness must in the first instance present itself as a relation between two constituent parts, the person who is conscious, and the thing, whatever it may be, of which he is conscious. This contrast has been indicated, directly or indirectly, by various names—mind and matter; person and thing; subject and object; or, lastly, in the distinction, most convenient for philosophy, however uncouth in sound, between self and not self—the ego and the non-ego. In order to be conscious at all, I must be conscious of something: consciousness thus presents itself as the product of two factors, I and something. The problem of the unconditioned is, briefly stated, to reduce these two factors to one.

AND

In order to conceive the Unconditioned existing as a thing, we must conceive it as existing out of relation to everything else. For if nothing beyond itself is necessary as a condition of its existence, it can exist separate from everything else; and its pure existence as the unconditioned is so separate. It must therefore be conceivable as the sole existence, having no plurality beyond itself; and as simple, having no plurality within itself. For if we cannot conceive it as existing apart from other things, we cannot conceive it as independent of them; and if we conceive it as a compound of parts, we have further to ask as before, what is the principle of unity which binds these parts into one whole? If there is such a principle, this is the true unconditioned; if there is no such principle, there is no unconditioned; for that which cannot exist except as a compound is dependent for its existence on that of its several constituents. The unconditioned must therefore be conceived as one, as simple, and as universal.

– H. L. Mansel

:pray:

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“The Conditioned is the mean between two extremes,—two inconditionates, exclusive of each other, neither of which can be conceived as possible, but of which, on the principles of contradiction and excluded middle, one must be admitted as necessary . On this opinion, therefore, our faculties are shown to be weak, but not deceitful. The mind is not represented as conceiving two propositions, subversive of each other, as equally possible; but only as unable to understand as possible either of the two extremes; one of which, however, on the ground of their mutual repugnance, it is compelled to recognise as true. We are thus taught the salutary lesson, that the capacity of thought is not to be constituted into the measure of existence; and are warned from recognising the domain of our knowledge as necessarily co-extensive with the horizon of our faith. And by a wonderful revelation, we are thus, in the very consciousness of our inability to conceive aught above the relative and finite, inspired with a belief in the existence of something unconditioned beyond the sphere of all comprehensible reality.”

– William Hamilton

:pray:

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To acquire knowledge should not be our first aim, but rather to rid ourselves of ignorance - which is false knowledge.
Wei Wu Wei

Perhaps Wei Wu Wei cannot be described as non-Buddhist, so let it be just a motto for the following minicollection of quotes.

One is misled, not because one doesn’t know, but because one thinks one knows.
Rousseau

We always need some degree of intelligence to become aware that we don’t know.
Montaigne

If you do not know that you do not know, you do not even want to know.
Dragomir

Understanding consist in understanding that we do not understand what we thought is understood by us.
Nicolas Gomez Davila↓

Once I believe I have mastered a truth, the argument which interests me is not the one which confirms it but the one which refutes it.

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I like all of those!

I have recemtly been reading Plato’s dialogues and have been struck by thier nearness in many respects to buddhist thought.

I am still too immersed in them to draw out any specific qoutes, but am surprised by the resonances, it seems to be very much the case that what people say are Platos positions are much more nuanced, open-ended and “free” than what is often dogmatically ascribed to him, there is a sense of playfulness, exploration and irony in his work that secondary descriptions, at least those i am familiar with, often seem to overlook.

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From ‘Introduction to Phenomenology’ by Robert Sokolowski

◆ 1 What Is Intentionality, and Why Is It Important?

:black_small_square: The core doctrine in phenomenology is the teaching that every act of consciousness we perform, every experience that we have, is intentional: it is essentially “consciousness of” or an “experience of” something or other. All our awareness is directed toward objects.

:black_small_square: Every act of consciousness, every experience, is correlated with an object. Every intending has its intended object.

:black_small_square: In phenomenology, “intending” means the conscious relationship we have to an object.

◆ THE PUBLICNESS OF MIND

:black_small_square: Phenomenology shows that the mind is a public thing, that it acts and manifests itself out in the open, not just inside its own confines. Everything is outside. The very notions of an “intramental world” and an “extramental world” are incoherent; they are examples of what Ezra Pound called “idea-clots”. The mind and the world are correlated with one another. Things do appear to us, things truly are disclosed, and we, on our part, do display, both to ourselves and to others, the way things are.

:black_small_square: Phenomenology recognizes the reality and truth of phenomena, the things that appear. It is not the case, as the Cartesian tradition would have us believe, that “being a picture” or “being a perceived object” or “being a symbol” is only in the mind. They are ways in which things can be. The way things appear is part of the being of things; things appear as they are, and they are as they appear. Things do not just exist; they also manifest themselves as what they are.

:black_small_square: For phenomenology, there are no “mere” appearances, and nothing is “just” an appearance. Appearances are real; they belong to being. Things do show up. Phenomenology allows us to recognize and to restore the world that seemed to have been lost when we were locked into our own internal world by philosophical confusions. Things that had been declared to be merely psychological are now found to be ontological, part of the being of things. Pictures, words, symbols, perceived objects, states of affairs, other minds, laws, and social conventions are all acknowledged as truly there, as sharing in being and as capable of appearing according to their own proper style.

◆ THE NATURAL ATTITUDE

:black_small_square: The world is more like a context, a setting, a background, or a horizon for all the things there are, all the things that can be intended and given to us; the world is not another thing competing with them. It is the whole for them all, not the sum of them all, and it is given to us as a special kind of identity. We could never have the world given to us as one item among many, nor even as a single item: it is given only as encompassing all the items. It contains everything, but not like any worldly container. The term “world” is a singulare tantum; there could only be one of them.

:black_small_square: The world is the ultimate setting for ourselves and for all the things we experience. The world is the concrete and actual whole for experience.

:black_small_square: Paradoxically, the I is a thing in the world, but it is a thing like no other: it is a thing in the world that also cognitively has the world, the thing to whom the world as a whole, with all the things in it, manifests itself. The I is the dative of manifestation. It is the entity to whom the world and all the things in it can be given, the one who can receive the world in knowledge.

:black_small_square: The world as a whole and the I as the center are the two singularities between which all other things can be placed. The world and the I are correlated with one another in a way different from the manner in which a particular intentionality is correlated with the thing that it intends. The world and the ego provide an ultimate dual, elliptical context for everything.

:black_small_square: Our belief is correlated with the being of things, which first and foremost is simply accepted as such.

:black_small_square: World belief is not subject to correction or refutation the way any particular belief is. If we are alive at all as conscious beings, world belief is there undergirding any particular conviction we may exercise. We never really learn or acquire our world belief, the way we might achieve our belief in, say, the Empire State Building or the San Juan River in Utah. All such particular beliefs arise concomitantly when we experience or hear about the thing in question, when we come to acknowledge its identity through the manifolds in which it is given to us, whether in presence or in absence. But we could never learn or acquire our world belief. What would be our state prior to learning it? We would have to be in a mute and encapsulated solipsism, a sheer awareness that was not aware of anything. Such a state is inconceivable; it would require that the ego think of itself as both the center of things and the sum of things, a hub without a radius. And even if we were to grant its possibility, what on earth (or even outside the earth) could jar us out of such a state? How could the very idea of something “outside” ever arise if it were not there from the beginning?

:black_small_square: We cannot start off in the egocentric predicament; our world belief is there from the start, even before we are born, as far back as we go. Even our most rudimentary sense of self could not arise except on the basis of world belief.

:black_small_square: Since we live in the paradoxical condition of both having the world and yet being part of it, we know that when we die the world will still go on, since we are only a part of the world, but in another sense the world that is there for me, behind all the things I know, will be extinguished when I am no longer part of it.

◆ THE PHENOMENOLOGICAL ATTITUDE

:black_small_square: If we are to give a descriptive analysis of any and all of the intentionalities in the natural attitude, we cannot share in any of them. We must take a distance to, reflect upon, and make thematic any and all of them. This means that while we are in the phenomenological attitude, we suspend all the intentionalities that we are examining. We neutralize them.

:black_small_square: When we move into the phenomenological attitude, we become something like detached observers of the passing scene or like spectators at a game. We become onlookers. We contemplate the involvements we have with the world and with things in it, and we contemplate the world in its human involvement. We are no longer simply participants in the world; we contemplate what it is to be a participant in the world and in manifestations. But the intentionalities that we contemplate — the convictions, doubts, suspicions, certainties, and perceptions that we examine and describe — are still our intentions. We have not lost them; we only contemplate them. They remain exactly as they were, and their objects remain exactly as they were, with the same correlations between intentions and objects still in force. In a very curious way, we suspend them all just as they are, we “freeze” them in place. And we who become philosophical are also the same selves who exercise natural intentionalities.

:black_small_square: Thus, when we enter into phenomenological reflection, we do not restrict our focus just to the subjective side of consciousness; we do not focus only on the intentionalities. We also focus on the objects that are given to us, but we focus on them as appearing to us in our natural attitude. In the natural attitude we head directly toward the object; we go right through the object’s appearances to the object itself. From the philosophically reflective stance, we make the appearances thematic. We look at what we normally look through.

I apologise for the long post. This is from notes taken while reading the book.
Philosophy is the lens through which we read the suttas. By merely choosing a more appropriate philosophy, one can greatly reduce the need for guesswork and mystification, as well as reveal the actual core of the Dhamma - all that which purely philosophy cannot resolve, and which is the knowledge that only Buddhas, not philosophers or scholars, can give. Conversely, if one approaches the suttas with a less appropriate philosophy, the essence of the Dhamma may simply get lost amid what are, in fact, purely philosophical contradictions, the complexity and mysticism of which derive only from the fact that the reader’s philosophy is incompatible with that of the author.

I think things are less complicated, in a sense that Dhamma is for wise, not for unwise, and that is the end of the story. And if one belong to the second category, even highest and first class philosophy will not help him.

So long as we do not come across educated fools, education seems important.

Phrases are pebbles that the writer tosses into the reader’s soul.
The diameter of the concentric waves they displace depends on the dimensions of the pond.
Nicolas Gomez Davila

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On certain level scepticism could be useful, specially if it manifest itself as lack of trust in ones own views. But we cannot expect from sceptic that he will be highly motivated toward practice and energetically strive towards perfection about which he is quite sceptical :smiling_face:

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Ok, here’s one;

“And so, wherever you turn, there is nothing, as we said at the outset, which in itself is just one thing; all things become relatively to something. The verb ‘to be’ must be totally abolished - though indeed we have been led by habit and ignorance into using it ourselves more than once, even in what we have just been saying. That is wrong, these wise men tell us, nor should we allow the use of such words as ‘something’, ‘of something’. or ‘mine’, ‘this’ or ‘that’, or any other name that makes things stand still. We ought, rather, to speak, according to nature and refer to things as ‘becoming’, ‘being produced’, ‘passing away’, ‘changing’; for if you speak in such a way as to make things stand still, you will easily be refuted. And this applies in speaking both of the individual case and of many aggregated together- such an aggregate, I mean, as people call ‘man’ or ‘stone’, or to which they give the names of the different animals and sorts of thing.”
from the Theaetetus

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It is true that Lord Buddha undermined our most certain of all certainties namely conviction that one exist, that I am, putting being into context of dependent arising, and so make it dependent on ignorance, but word being very well describes the state of puthujjana, - it is synonymous with conceit “I am”. And since from infinite time to the present puthujjana experience doesn’t change at all, if we take care to describe it in the form of structure, namely :

Ignorance on pre-reflexixe level - Conceit “I am” is present
Ignorance on reflexive level as personality view, at least as underlying tendention is present:

the word “being” perfectly well describes the state of puthujjana, at least for one who sees atemporal relationship between the items of dependent arising. More, as Ven Nanamoli argue, inability to properly render bhava as being, not becoming is dependently arisen upon ignorance:

My point simply hinges on the question of translating bhava by ‘becoming’ as is usually done. It is generally argued against translating bhava by ‘being’ that ‘being is static’; but while admitting that, ‘becoming’ (1) offers no solution since in the Concise Oxford Dictionary, ‘to become’ means ‘to begin to be’, (2) it completely severs the hoti of the (incipient) syllogisms, e.g., hoti Tathāgato parammaraṇa …’ and other vaguer uses of hoti (bhavati) and, indirectly, atthi from connexion with the Paṭicca-samuppāda, tending to make the P/S subordinate to syllogistic logic rather than the other way about; (3) it is incompatible with S …. and It (and also with MN 131–4). ‘Becoming’ (and still more ‘werden’) suggests a flux where the future ‘becomes’ by ‘flowing’ through the present into the past, or ‘future things’ ‘become’ present and then past, while what is meant or implied by the constant and unavoidable use of the verb ‘to be’ is left unaccounted for. Hence, I argue, to translate (even to interpret to oneself) bhava by ‘becoming’ is an opiate that leaves the illusion of ‘being’ untreated. I doubt if that is what the Buddha intended.

So you can abolish word “,being” but intellectual honesty requires to do so together with ignorance :smiling_face:.