SuttaCentral

Craving for sensual pleasures and sensual becoming


#1

Hi ,

Tanha or craving is the cause of dukkha.
But , do you think becoming is an object of craving ?

Three type of craving :
Kama-taṇhā (craving for sensual pleasures)
bhava-taṇhā (craving for becoming )
vibhava-taṇhā (craving for non-becoming)

3 type of Becoming :
sensual becoming
Rupa becoming
Arupa becoming

So, the question is ,
why is it as the kama tanha ,
ie craving for sensual pleasures ,
then again overlapping ,
In the bhava tanha ,
repeating as craving for sensual becoming ?

Any difference between
Craving for sensual pleasures and
Craving for sensual becoming ?


#2

I read this as "craving for sensual ‘continuance’…


#3

Becoming is future plans to acquire and enjoy sensual pleasures repetitively. This means having means to do so - money, a house, a relationship, in other words a life and an existence in a world where sensuality is possible- lower, human or sensual deva realms, excluding brahma realms or Pure abodes.


#4
  • I want chocolate.
  • I want to become sexy.
  • I want to cease being unsexy.

#5

It seems Bhava (tanha) include rupa bhava and arupa bhava . Does ordinary people without jhana and knowledge of the dhamma know what is rupa realm and arupa realm especially ?
If one don’t have a clue of what arupa realm is , how do one crave for these realms that one do not know ?


#6

Craving for sensual pleasures is itself a becoming ! I don’t know if you see the difference ?


#7

Probably not the best word for it, but I wanted to come at it from another angle - I meant continuance as in the continuance of attachment to life in samsara… the opposite of cessation. Continuance as the cause for rebirth as per dependent origination, or do you mean something else? Please share your view :slight_smile: I love it when new aspects are revealed :smiley:


#8

This involves mistaking fantasy and imagination for reality. One may imagine what Nibbana is or what arupa realms are, and then crave for that. Indeed, only enlightened and fully awakened beings, who have seen and experienced these realms or Nibbana can know them, everyone else’s ideas are based, to a greater or lesser extent, on imagination and views. :slight_smile:

This mistaking of fantasy for reality happens all the time in our lives. Every time one thinks… if I had the right partner, my life would be perfect, If I had a house, If I had more money, If I was fitter etc etc… All these beliefs are based on fantasy and not truly seeing things the way they are

:anjal::dharmawheel:


#9

Craving for form and formless realms, for non existence, as you say may find that being going to a sensual realm.

Craving (tanha) lasts a short time. Craving leads to attachment (upadana). That lasts longer. Attachment leads to bhava which is much more longer lasting the ending of which is bhava nirodha.

This thought is based on delusion: mistaking that which is unsatisfactory for satisfactory (sukha) which is a ‘perversion’ vipallasa.


#10

can you crave for craving
Or attachment / clinging for example ?


#11

I take it to mean the distinction between the craving for pleasant experience, and the craving for experience generally, ie craving for continued stimulation via the “physical” sense bases.


#12

Absolutely one can crave for craving.

Knowing the danger of relishing, I would engage with a delight till it disappeared and I could simply apply direct knowledge as it arose. See a show, binge watch a show again and again till every shred of relishing vanished. Eventually all shows just became unenjoyable. I simply can’t watch shows now–all I see is actors and all I hear is writers. So, yay? :thinking:

The near enemy of this practice of extinguishing relishing is that one can crave for the next delight to crave. Yes that sounds a bit meta (not metta), because that is what Mara does, Mara gets loopy and not-simple. Mara loves thicket of views.

But when I read mn1/en/bodhi, I read “delight is the root of suffering”. D’oh. Craving of delight. I was suffering from the extinguishment of delight in my life. I would nod wisely at people and tell them woefully, “you are young. cherish your delights. one day they will be gone.” Dumbass me.

Yup.


#13

I would say this is still craving


#14

Yes. That was my delusion.