Dark Night stage

[Nessie]

@stephen

Since John of the Cross was a Christian very concerned with the fate of his soul, and the Buddha spent a lot of time explaining how there isn’t a soul, there probably is not a lot of overlap.

Yes, that’s for sure. (And I think the asker of the question was of course aware of it - but what do I know … :-)).

Anyway; while the christian/abrahamistic discourse on “the soul” has its theological frame which makes it quite different from the Buddha’s discourse, one should not forget, that below such a theological framing there is a wide area, where people subsume their experiences, psychic dilemmata, their personal suffering, their observing of causes & conditions etc. under the keyword “soul” without having it exactly into the theological framing. And this area is then one, where Buddhists can show empathy and brotherly/sisterly discourse on the daily life’s sorrows & happinesses.

[Embodied59]

Hi
Precisely. That’s why i mentioned on my other comment “manomaya kaya”, which is what really keeps on becoming.

[stephen]

It doesn’t seem entirely clear to me what ‘manomaya kaya’ means in the suttas, although it is probably borrowed from the Vedic/advaita manomaya kosa.

In the suttas it seems a type of subtle rupa, not permanent and not to be confused with atman.

[Adutiya]

@har1ndu15

But I became very worried after reading several people’s experience and reading about Daniel Ingram’s work(4. The Arising and Passing Away – MCTB.org ).

There was a discussion here about Daniel Ingram and the things he has said and has claimed. Since you mentioned him, I would recommend reading it.

with metta

Analayo: "Meditation Maps, Attainment Claims, and the Adversities of Mindfulness"

Ven Analayo has published a critique of the claims of Daniel Ingram’s approach to meditation. If you don’t know who Ingram is, don’t worry, you’re not missing out on anything. But he has been an influential teacher, and Ven Analayo in his usual careful and grounded way shows that, though Ingram bases his meditation teachings on the traditional Theravadin series of insight knowledges, in fact they have little in common. You can pay nearly 60 $AUD to download the PDF from Springer. Or just d…

[Embodied59]

nothing to do with atman. Manomaya Kaya : let’s call it mental body, a samsaric subtle body engendered by tanha. Or call it “psyche” as in ancient (very ancient!) Greece. Such aggregate can be improved in order to reborn with a better / more evolved / purified
life( from a buddhist viewpoint.) Or can be totally “disintegrated” by attaining Nibanna.
Now back to the soul (from a western perspective) as an emanation or “divine spark” of some divinity, many don’t notice all the absurd contradictions triggered by such concept/belief, and here’s one example: why would something coming from an omnipotent knowing-everything being need to be perfected?

As for the hindu Atman : the hindu atman from a non-dual angle has nothing to do with the Christian / monotheistic soul-concept.

[Bushwacker]

Lots of stories of Buddhist practitioners going crazy, experiencing overwhelming trauma, commiting suicide no? I.e. asuba suicides when the Buddha had a holiday?