Dharmaguptaka Vinaya and ordination of gay people

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I feel the relation of ayurveda to the buddhadharma is such an open and mysterious question, and one so rarely asked here with respect to the historical ascetic Gautama, that it could well be worth a thread of enquiry all its own. I think I might make such a thread with your blessing, as I myself have nothing other than suspicions and no super solid facts as to when ayurveda “began”, if you will.


Sorry, I had other things to concentrate on, so I didn’t see the suttacentral in the previous days.

Yes, I think that’s basically my position.

I don’t believe the five pandakas as describing homosexual. They may have sex (or sexual contact, like embrace) with men, may with women.

I speculate the description for some pandaka having sex with men is because they have no male genitals or have impotence problem. They can’t satisfy sex with women. So they have to find men to have sex or enjoy sex.

That’s why though they may have sex with men, they may still want sex with women (If their impotence problem can be solved). This is where the relation between pandaka and the Ayurveda medicine. To cure the impotence (or infertility).

Still, some pandakas can not be cured by the Ayurveda medicine, like napumsakapandaka or opakkamikapandaka.

And I think pandaka mainly be pointed toward napumsakapandaka or opakkamikapandaka. The reason is based on the Yogācārabhūmi-śāstra (瑜伽師地論) calling the napumsaka-pandaka as complete-pandaka (全分半擇迦), the opakkamika-pandaka as damaged-pandaka (損害半擇迦), and the other three as somewhat-pandaka (一分半擇迦).

So the napumsaka-pandaka is complete-pandaka (no male genitals) from born. Opakkamika-pandaka is complete-pandaka from becoming eunuch or accidents. And these two can’t be cured through the Ayurveda medicine to recover male genitals’ function.

The other three are somewhat-pandaka, and seem to have some temporary treatments, or knowing how to inform the impotent patients what to do (from the Ayurvedic view).

In addition, the Pali Vinaya’s Commentary said only napumsaka, opakkamika, and pakkha are barred from ordination, with a caveat that the last can still be ordained during the “bright fortnight”. (This information comes from Semen, Viagra and Pandaka: Ancient Endocrinology and Modern Day Discrimination* | Likhitpreechakul | Journal of the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies )

So the napumsaka and opakkamika seem to be the main pandaka. Well, that’s what I think.