Disputation & refutation in EBTs

I am starting a little informal research project, and I thought D&D might be interested to see it in action and perhaps contribute. I will be compiling instances of refutation of wrong view in the EBT. This is to support a comparison to the method of “disputation of irrational belief” from REBT (Rational Emotive-Behavioral Therapy).

Example:

  1. As I understand the Buddha’s teachings, the acts that he says are obstructions are not really obstructions for the one who performs them.
    “Foolish man, who on earth have you ever known me to teach in that way?
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As it happens, I’m translating these pacittiya rules about the refutation of wrong view today. :slightly_smiling_face:

Pali bi 146 = bu 68 (Ajahn Thanissaro’s translation)
Should any bhikkhunī say the following: “As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, those acts the Blessed One says are obstructive, when engaged in are not genuine obstructions,” the bhikkhunīs are to admonish her thus: “Do not say that, lady. Do not misrepresent the Blessed One, for it is not good to misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One would not say anything like that. In many ways, lady, the Blessed One has described obstructive acts, and when engaged in they are genuine obstructions.”

And should that bhikkhunī, thus admonished by the bhikkhunīs, persist as before, the bhikkhunīs are to rebuke her up to three times for the sake of relinquishing that. If while being rebuked up to three times she relinquishes that, that is good. If she does not relinquish that, it is to be confessed.

Pali bi 148 = bu 70

And if a female novice should say the following: “As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, those acts the Blessed One says are obstructive, when engaged in are not genuine obstructions,” the bhikkhunīs are to admonish her thus: “Do not say that, lady novice. Do not misrepresent the Blessed One, for it is not good to misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One would not say anything like that. In many ways, lady, the Blessed One has described obstructive acts, and when engaged in they are genuine obstructions.”

And should that female novice, thus admonished by the bhikkhunīs, persist as before, the bhikkhunīs are to admonish her thus: “From this day forth, lady novice, you are not to claim the Blessed One as your teacher, nor are you even to have the opportunity the other female novices get — that of sharing dwellings two or three nights with the bhikkhunīs. Away with you! Get lost!”

Should any bhikkhunī knowingly support, receive services from, consort with, or lie down in the same dwelling with a female novice thus expelled, it is to be confessed.

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A while ago, I made this list of misbehaving monastics in the Pali suttas, including those with various wrong views. Maybe it will be helpful for your research.

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If you are interested in EBT vinaya texts as well, you could have a look at Pali bhikkhuni parajika 7, and sanghadisesas 10-17. They are about disputation and admonishment, but not all of them cover wrong view. Many are also about other kinds of wrong behaviours.

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Yes, thanks. This spreadsheet will be helpful. I see that there are several specifically about views.

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mn22
22.1 Mendicants, it would make sense to be possessive about something that’s permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, and will last forever and ever.
22.2 But do you see any such possession?”

23.1 It would make sense to grasp at a doctrine of self that didn’t give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
23.2 But do you see any such doctrine of self?”

24.1 It would make sense to rely on a view that didn’t give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
24.2 But do you see any such view to rely on?”

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Good list! Sati’s problematic view could be expanded a bit more (and possibly subtly different): it’s about the survival of consciousness after death, which is more of a formed view:

at that time a mendicant called Sāti, the fisherman’s son, had the following harmful misconception: “As I understand the Buddha’s teachings, it is this very same consciousness that roams and transmigrates, not another.” Several mendicants heard about this.
SuttaCentral

mn22 continued
31 Mendicants, were a self to exist, would there be the thought, ‘Belonging to my self’?”

32 “Yes, sir.”

33 “Were what belongs to a self to exist, would there be the thought, ‘My self’?” “Yes, sir.”

34 “But self and what belongs to a self are not acknowledged as a genuine fact. This being so, is not the following a totally foolish teaching: ‘The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After death I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, and will last forever and ever’?”

36 “What do you think, mendicants? Is form permanent or impermanent?”

37 “Impermanent, sir.”

38 “But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”

39“Suffering, sir.”

40 “But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and liable to fall apart, is it fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”

42 “What do you think, mendicants? Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness

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