DN 15: can sotapannas 'not cling to anything in the world'?

[Sylvester]

@silence

I guess you are playing on the word ‘world’, interpreting it as ‘plane of existence’

Actually, I have not taken that position; I have taken “world” to mean the 5 Aggregates/Suffering when I posted previously -

@Sylvester

what is the world but the 5 Aggregates in brief (= Suffering : SN 12 44).

I hope that clarifies my position on the “world”. Moving on.

I hope you can help me out here a little bit with your assertion -

@silence

Well, my position is that I don’t see how those points address my remark at all:

no clinging to anything at all in the entire world > no bhava at all > no birth anywhere whatsoever, which means the person is a deceased arahant

You do realise that is not what the handy search function on DD reveals. This is what you said in the other thread -

@silence

Dependent origination states:

no clinging to anything at all in the world > no bhava at all > no birth anywhere whatsoever

which means… the person is an arahant.

I’m not bothered by the state of the arahant. What I’m interested in is -

1. why you have changed your original position by the inclusion of “entire” as bolded -

no clinging to anything at all in the entire world

2. what is the basis for the inclusion of the “entire” into the “na kiñci loke upādiyati” formula? Where is the sabba/entire in the formula to justify this translation?

3. Something I should have spotted earlier - how did you derive “at all” from the Pali? Where is the requisite adverb samatta in the text to justify this?

Moving on. I’m also now confused by this -

@silence

Once again, no. I treat ‘not clinging to anything in the world’ as ‘totally without clinging’,

Which position are you actually taking?

no clinging to anything at all in the entire world

OR

not clinging to anything in the world

There is a world of difference between the 2 propositions, and that was why I urged you to check on the meaning of anupādiyaṃ. The English translations that use “clinging” for the substantive noun upādāna can be a bit confusing, as you need to be alive to the fact that “clinging” also renders the present participle, and as we have seen, the absolutive as well.

@silence

There is only one little problem though. The word ‘world’ (loka) does not appear at all in the above sense restraint fulfillment formula. So do you rather mean to refer to the earlier satipatthana formula ‘vineyya loke abhij­jhā­do­manas­saṃ’?

Actually, I hold “vineyya loke abhij­jhā­do­manas­saṃ” to be the sense restraint fulfilment formula, on account of the absolutive.