Continuing the discussion from Sutta Abhidhamma vs Abhidhammatha Sanga ha?:
By the way can you provide the relevant Sutta support?
Yes of course.
SarathW1:
you can experience only the bodily feeling. (out of five senses others termed as Upekkha or neutral)
SN 35.24 clearly states that three types of feeling (pleasant, unpleasant, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant) arise with each type of sense-contact as condition:
Cakkhuṃ, bhikkhave, pahātabbaṃ, rūpā pahātabbā, cakkhuviññāṇaṃ pahātabbaṃ, cakkhusamphasso pahātabbo, yampidaṃ cakkhusamphassapaccayā uppajjati vedayitaṃ sukhaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vā tampi pahātabbaṃ
The eye is to be abandoned, forms are to be abandoned, eye-consciousness is to be abandoned, eye-contact is to be abandoned, and whatever feeling arises with eye-contact as condition—whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant—that too is to be abandoned.
SarathW1:
On that basis they all are Vipaka.
SN 36.21 describes 8 types of vedanā, and only one of them is kammavipāka:
Pittaṃ semhañca vāto ca,
Sannipātā utūni ca;
Visamaṃ opakkamikaṃ,
Kammavipākena aṭṭhamī
Bile, phlegm, and also wind,
Imbalance and climate too,
Carelessness and assault,
With kamma result as the eighth.
SarathW1:
Arahant or Buddha experienced only Dukkha.
They experienced dukkha-vedanā, but this cannot be described as Dukkha because the arahants have attained complete cessation of Dukkha. Sorry, I was being overly picky with this one.
I’ve found that many Bhikkhus that teach Dhamma today teach something that is inconsistent with the Sutta pitaka. According to my limited understanding the Abhidhamma also contradicts the Suttas. What many Bhikkhus teach these days is something like Visuddhimaggadhamma or Abhidhamma.
It would be really unfortunate to miss out on awakening to the Buddha Dhamma that we have beautifully preserved in the Suttas by getting distracted by other things. The opportunity we have been given is extremely rare and valuable, don’t let it go to waste. I hope that you will be able to attain Nibbana within this Gautama Buddha Sasana, my dear friend.
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Perception
"‘Perception, perception’: Thus is it said. To what extent, friend, is it said to be ‘perception’?"
“‘It perceives, it perceives’: Thus, friend, it is said to be ‘perception.’ And what does it perceive? It perceives blue. It perceives yellow. It perceives red. It perceives white. ‘It perceives, it perceives’: Thus it is said to be ‘perception.’”
“Feeling, perception, & consciousness, friend: Are these qualities conjoined or disjoined? Is it possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them?”
“Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them. For what one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one cognizes. Therefore these qualities are conjoined, not disjoined, and it is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them.”
If you take a newly born child, all the eye, ear, nose and tongue consciousness are neutral.
Abhidhamma is more specific about mental states.
The Abhidhamma teaches us that:
1.there are natural laws which govern the universe (niyaama dhammaa);
2.our mental and physical states arise dependent on causes — dependent origination (pa.ticca samuppaada); and
3.conditioning and influencing relationships exist between these effects and their causes (paccaya).
The Natural Laws
The Buddhist texts recognize five laws holding sway over the natural order.
1.Physical inorganic law (utuniyaama). This law governs inorganic processes, working through variations in heat to bring about changes in the body and the outer world. In the body it governs decay and illness, in the outer world wind and rain, the regular sequence of seasons, differences of climate, etc.
2.Physical organic law (biijaniyaama). This law operates in both the animal and vegetable kingdoms to account for heredity, genetics, and the tendency of like to beget like.
3.Law of kamma (kammaniyaama). Kamma is volitional action, bodily, verbal, or mental. Such action produces a result appropriate to itself. The result is not a reward or punishment meted out by some overseer but an inherent consequence of the action itself. Good actions bring happiness, bad actions bring suffering.
4.Law of the mind (cittaniyaama) governs the order of consciousness and mental processes and also makes possible such feats as telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, clairaudience, and recollection of past lives.
5.Law of the dhamma (dhammaniyaama) accounts for the phenomena that occur at the last birth of a bodhisatta and also the happenings during the life and at the death of the Buddhas.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mendis/wheel322.html#cetasika