EBTs which indicate the experience of the body disappears while meditating?

[Brahmali]

There is really no need for you to reply to my post. Whether kāya refers to the breath or the body in the third step of the Ānāpānasati Sutta is a relatively minor matter, which is unlikely to make much difference to anyone’s practice. I know people on both sides of this divide who have had success with mindfulness of breathing. I would suggest letting it be. If you do reply, I am unlikely to respond. I want to avoid spending so much time on matters of little practical importance.

What is important is the nature of the jhānas. I hope to get back to this later, but I can make no promise when that will be.

[alaber]

I would like this discussion to be closed by the people in charge of monitoring Discourse. Thank you in advance.

[Mat]

@Sylvester

But how is framing the issue as such relevant to the question of whether the sense data cognisable by the physical body is contacted in an absorption? Even if one did not wish/desire (but see *) for the disappearance of contacts at the 5 physical senses, how is the absence of such a wish/desire relevant to the issue of such contacts disappearing or otherwise?

"Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. Idha, bhikkhave, sāriputto vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃvivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.

4.1 And he distinguished the phenomena in the first absorption one by one: placing and keeping and rapture and bliss and unification of mind; contact, feeling, perception, intention, mind, enthusiasm, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention. Ye ca paṭhame jhāne dhammā vitakko ca vicāro ca pīti ca sukhañca cittekaggatā ca, phassovedanā saññā cetanā cittaṃ chando adhimokkho vīriyaṃ sati upekkhā manasikāro—tyāssadhammā anupadavavatthitā honti.

4.2 He knew those phenomena as they arose, as they remained, and as they went away. Tyāssa dhammā viditā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti. MN111

To sense sukha as in the jhana similes the it must be spread everywhere in the body -this requires cetana as it’s not going to happen without it.

I agree with @Brahmali that this is minor issue as even the person with samadhi is just required to continue the practice even more.

[karl_lew]

@Brahmali

But in the end, if anyone is able to make progress by focusing on the whole body and then coming back to breath later, then I cannot see any reason not to do so. If it works, it’s good. Still, from a textual perspective I think kāya here must refer to the breath.

In listening to the suttas while walking meditation on the same route everyday I find that I can eventually hear and recall where I am both physically in the world and within the sutta while just focusing on the breath. It is not so much an omniscient present awareness or focus as a sense of aware procession in a bounded space of world/body/mind/sutta pacing on and with the thread of breath. It’s as if I was just pacing out a “group of breath phenomena” comprising the physical path through the streets, the state of the body, the place in the sutta.

Thank you for the understanding of “group of breath phenomena”. This helped me collect my muddled experiences.

[Gillian]

@alaber

I would like this discussion to be closed by the people in charge of monitoring Discourse. Thank you in advance.

About to action your request.