That doesn’t strike me as a terribly strong foundation from which to judge the accuracy of a translation done by someone who does read the language in question.
Any time I’ve used Google Translate, for really mundane Chinese, Japanese, or Korean text, it has turned out almost as confusing as the original language. 
5 Likes
(responding to nadine)
There are two issues.
- The sunyata that appears in some chinese 3rd jhana passages, you can refer to cdpatton’s explanation earlier in the thread. That is not an error on cdpatton’s part, that’s with CBETA agama source.
- The second issue of making kaya/body disappear in the 3rd jhana formula, that’s not a translation accuracy issue, that’s an interpretation and understanding of EBT issue. You can be the greatest chinese language scholar of all time, and it’s not going to help you at all for this specific issue. What makes you qualified is knowing how four jhanas, 5 indriya-vedana scheme, kaya, 7 awakening factors is understood in the pali and agama EBT, versus their commentary and Abhidhamma counterparts.
that is a great tip. that makes sense. Ancient classical chinese is hard for anyone to understand, whereas a vietnamese translation of that ancient chinese is likely to be in a ‘plain english’ modern style of vietnamese most people easily understand.
Interesting; do you have any papers available that we can read on this?
4 Likes
I wouldn’t go too far, the Vietnamese translations here follow very closely the Classical Chinese. It is in “hybrid Classical Vietnamese” sort of. Sometimes you’ll find the exact same gibberish from your translator going from Chinese to English and Vietnamese to English.
3 Likes
Probably a good time to bring back an old thread that explores the Middle Indo Aryan understanding of the term kāya as used in the texts in Pali and Chinese -
Anyone ready for a formless kāya?
5 Likes
Sorry to see your volunteer translation work is being heavily criticized. I say sorry because such criticism would likely deter volunteers like you, Charles, who are doing their best to make the dhamma more available through translation work, which I’m sure is very challenging and time consuming.
There have been at least several instances in the past where others “attacked” Bhante @sujato translation choices. I wonder if it would be helpful to look at how Bhante replied Charles? Or perhaps he has some suggestions.
Thanks so much Charles for your translation work. I really look forward to delving into the agamas at some point.
metta to all 
7 Likes
For all the good work you’re doing, a big 善哉! 善哉!
Don’t worry about his attacks on your translation of the word “kāyena” in the 3rd Dhyana pericope. He’s conveniently left out mention that the word is not functioning nominally there, but adverbially. The great Sanskritist Wijesekara would approve of your translation. Ample examples from the Pali about “kāyena” meaning “personally” have been cited to him in the past, but he always ducks and evades answering.
If he decides to take rebirth here again under a different guise, don’t hold back on the MIA grammatical point that has been thoroughly ventilated previously.
Again, pls keep up the good work.
7 Likes
Also please, everybody, feel free to contact moderators with any issues and concerns. We do our best, but can’t pick up on everything. We won’t tolerate bullying, as soon as we are aware of it, we can do something about it, so let us know. Same thing goes with duplicate accounts etc.
Many Thanks 
10 Likes
Thanks, everyone. I wasn’t looking for the notes of support, but it never hurts to hear them occasionally. I was just setting boundaries. I can’t control what people say or believe, but I can make it clear when/why I won’t be engaging further.
Translation work is difficult enough without the threats of karmic retribution. What I always wonder is how these people aren’t worried that they may be misleading translators to make mistakes? They’d probably be a little more careful if they thought it through. But, of course, it’s just a passive-aggressive way to harass people, so that doesn’t occur to them. I still remember the time another translator told I was going to hell for xyz “mistake.” It must be nice to have a direct line to Yama.
Anyway, such is life. My main trouble is just finding a way to actually translate these texts, which includes all the research and editing required.
11 Likes
That’s KING Yama to you!
I joke, of course.
1 Like
A deluded mind might not see the impermanence of it’s own views, and as such won’t see this as a mistake. 
Beware righteousness
Many thanks for your dedicated work and really inspiring level of generosity 
4 Likes
Dear @cdpatton ,
Translation is such a difficult and exhausting work - especially for the vast buddhist corpus.
Wishing you mental strength to do this as much as you can
Translation work is difficult enough without the threats of karmic retribution.
Since you do not intend to purposely mislead, you needn’t worry
If you understand the text a particular way, that’s how you translate it.
Nothing wrong with that.It is your translation, after all.
As long as you put forth your methodology/reasons in brief, engagement can end there;
If someone wants you to do the perfect translation which is doctrinally acceptable to everyone, then it might be never ending work like Samsara!
Thanks for your work,
Ravi
3 Likes
Hi cd & guys
For your reference :
Three bliss birth state ,
there are beings of such bodies ,
with distancing 離
(from unwholesomeness)
give rise to rapture and bliss 生喜樂 …
Thanks for your support here @Viveka , @Nadine
I see one of the users in the thread has been suspended for duplicated accounts.
Could you explain what this means?
Is it the case someone created two different users to emulate a conversation just to stir up things and ‘make a point’ ? 
2 Likes
“Duplicate accounts” is somewhat incomplete for an explanation. It was a sockpuppet account by a user who had been suspended twice under a different name in an effort to circumvent the disciplinary action.
If someone is having an issue with signing into their account, say they forgot their password, and they create a second account because they’re unsure of other remedies, they won’t be suspended. In that event, let the moderators know what happened and they will sort it out for you.
6 Likes
Sadu! Great point.
4 Likes
I thought the critical posts seemed strangely familiar. Now I know why.
3 Likes
Yes, that is what I imagined, a sock puppet situation. How tragicomic! 
1 Like