Good Friends/Kalyanamittas: A Personal Ad :dharmawheel:

[SeriousFun136]

@karl_lew

One may also associate with the kalyanamitta in all of us.

Does this mean that everyone is a kalyannamitta?

@karl_lew

The Buddha in me bows to the Buddha in you.

Has the Buddha or Sangha used this kind of phrasing before? I am curious where this kind of phrasing comes from because I don’t think I have come across these in the early sources.

@karl_lew

we can’t really be greedy about spiritual friends.

What do you mean “greedy about spiritual friends”?
Is even looking for spiritual friends considered being greedy for them?
How can one find them if one does not look and search?

@karl_lew

And it harms us to hate non-spiritual folks.

I agree. Any form of hatred is harmful.

@karl_lew

And we certainly shouldn’t waste all our time deciding whether someone is worthy of spiritual friendship. So we end up with a bit of a quandary about how to relate to others.

It seems that the Buddha did advise beings to be discerning about evaluating whether someone is worthy of spiritual friendship in at least one place:

@anon87721581

These three people are found in the world. What three? There is a person you shouldn’t associate with, accompany, or attend. There is a person you should associate with, accompany, and attend.There is a person you should associate with, accompany, and attend with honor and respect.

Who is the person you shouldn’t associate with, accompany, or attend? It’s someone who is inferior in terms of ethics, immersion, and wisdom. You shouldn’t associate with, accompany, or attend such a person, except out of kindness and compassion.

Who is the person you should associate with, accompany, and attend? It’s someone who is similar in terms of ethics, immersion, and wisdom. You should associate with, accompany, and attend such a person. Why is that?Thinking, ‘Since our ethical conduct is similar, we can discuss ethics, the conversation will flow, and we’ll both be at ease. Since our immersion is similar, we can discuss immersion, the conversation will flow, and we’ll both be at ease. Since our wisdom is similar, we can discuss wisdom, the conversation will flow, and we’ll both be at ease.’ That’s why you should associate with, accompany, and attend such a person.

Who is the person you should associate with, accompany, and attend with honor and respect? It’s someone who is superior in terms of ethics, immersion, and wisdom. You should associate with, accompany, and attend such a person with honor and respect. Why is that?Thinking, ‘I’ll fulfill the entire spectrum of ethical conduct I haven’t yet fulfilled, or support with wisdom in every situation the ethical conduct I’ve already fulfilled. I’ll fulfill the entire spectrum of immersion I haven’t yet fulfilled, or support with wisdom in every situation the immersion I’ve already fulfilled. I’ll fulfill the entire spectrum of wisdom I haven’t yet fulfilled, or support with wisdom in every situation the wisdom I’ve already fulfilled.’ That’s why you should associate with, accompany, and attend this person with honor and respect.

These are the three people found in the world.

A man who associates with an inferior goes downhill,
but associating with an equal, you’ll never decline;
following the best, you’ll quickly rise up,
so you should keep company with people better than you.”
AN3.26

Thus, I wish wish to prioritize associating with beings in the following way:

1. superior to me in terms of mental development
2. similar to me in terms of mental development
3. inferior to me in terms of mental development

This does seem to require that I accurately assess both my own current level of mental development and assess the current level of mental development of others as well.

@karl_lew

MN8 goes into a lot of detail about ethics and lists 44 things to practice.

@karl_lew

What’s remarkable about these 44 perspectives is their universality.

I love this and totally agree. Thank you for sharing.

@karl_lew

It is the way we treat our spiritual friends and the whole world .

@karl_lew

we treat all as our spiritual friends

I am not sure if the definition that you are using here as spiritual friends (I agree with what you mean to say in terms of MN8) agrees with the way the Buddha used the term spiritual friends (such as in AN3.26) - the latter seems to encourage a significant degree of discernment in terms of choosing who to associate with.

I completely agree with developing metta and the rest of the brahmaviharas.

Another relevant thread:

What is a good person and what is a good friend?

In SN55.5 we get the line: “Sir, the factors of stream-entry are associating with good people, listening to the true teaching, proper attention, and practicing in line with the teaching.” “Sappurisasaṃsevo hi, bhante, sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, saddhammassavanaṃ sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, yonisomanasikāro sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, dhammānudhammappaṭipatti sotāpattiyaṅgan”ti. So if seems that a factor of steam entry is ‘associating with good people’ (sappurisasaṃsevo). In SN45.2 we have the Buddha suggesting: Good fr…

@stu

In SN55.5 we get the line:

“Sir, the factors of stream-entry are associating with good people, listening to the true teaching, proper attention, and practicing in line with the teaching.”

“Sappurisasaṃsevo hi, bhante, sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, saddhammassavanaṃ sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, yonisomanasikāro sotāpattiyaṅgaṃ, dhammānudhammappaṭipatti sotāpattiyaṅgan”ti.

@stu

In SN45.2 we have the Buddha suggesting:

Good friends, companions, and associates are the whole of the spiritual life.

Sakalamevidaṃ, ānanda, brahmacariyaṃ, yadidaṃ—kalyāṇamittatā kalyāṇasahāyatā kalyāṇasampavaṅkatā.

@ZenKen

I take the example from the bamboo acrobat simile and apply it to friendships.

And how do you look after others by looking after yourself? By development, cultivation, and practice of meditation. And how do you look after yourself by looking after others? By acceptance, harmlessness, love, and sympathy.
Thinking ‘I’ll look after myself,’ you should cultivate mindfulness meditation. Thinking ‘I’ll look after others,’ you should cultivate mindfulness meditation. Looking after yourself, you look after others; and looking after others, you look after yourself.

@ZenKen

a whole list of things and ways to cultivate good qualities in MN 114 since it is shortened by ellipse I’ll put a copy from AN 9.6 on association here,

When I associate with this person, unskillful qualities decline, and skillful qualities grow.

@ZenKen

That means their attainments aren’t as important as much as the qualities that they promote in you, this can also be found in the Sigalaka Sutta (DN 31).

@stu

To compound my confusion, in MN8 we get a list of skillful qualities, and some of these seem quite exacting. Not the sort of qualities that we might expect from people who are puthujanna to be of help with, let alone non-Buddhists.

@stu

And then we later have the idea …

Truly, Cunda, if you’re sinking down in the mud you can’t pull out someone else who is also sinking down in the mud. But if you’re not sinking down in the mud you can pull out someone else who is sinking down in the mud. Truly, if you’re not tamed, trained, and extinguished you can’t tame, train, and extinguish someone else. But if you’re tamed, trained, and extinguished you can tame, train, and extinguish someone else.

So how can one realistically call oneself a kalyāṇamitta without at least the sotopanna attainment?