@sujato
Bhante ,
Could you help to explain the difference between overcoming hindrances and Abandoning fetters ?
Could you explain why the overlapping of 4 out of 5 hindrances in the 10 fetters ?
Would you agree mano(conceit) fetter is the “extension” of self view ? Which is actually no different or equivalent ?
Would you agree that craving for rupa and arūpa is also the “extension” of the
greed/desire in the lower fetters ?
Would you agree that Buddha only talked about 5 fetters , the upper 5 fetters was added much later ?
I appreciate the questions, but it is a complicated series of questions, and it would take a long time to give an adequate answer. So it may not give you what you want, but here is a brief answer:
The former is in samadhi, the second in realization.
See above.
See my earlier answer on atammayatā:
I don’t think talking about “extensions” is very useful. Rather, they are both forms of desire, one for sense objects, one for rebirth in Brahma realms.
Yes , never mind the word extension ,
but , anyway, thanks .
If it is so as you said , all will need to attain arupa jhāna before can attain arahant state ? Because all the ten fetters needs to be abandoned !
Maybe you could explain this also ?
The idea is that you let go attachment to it. Whether you have to get the attainment to do so is the difference between the paññavimutta and the kāyasakkhi.
Compare two people who don’t have any attachment to smoking. One of them is an ex-smoker. For years they were addicted to the stuff, and at long last they have let go their addiction. The other has never smoked; they saw the health problems and that was enough for them. How they got to that state doesn’t matter in the end: what matters is that they’re not attached.
Dear Banthe; I don’t know the meaning of paññavimutta and the kāyasakkhi but I think I understand your point.
No need to do the attainments and then to become not attached to them.
If, as I understand, the attainments are not really needed for Nibanna then no worry about being detached by the fact that one has not been there and could not possibly have been attached.
I was wondering why this fetter was there in the 1st place.
This is my first visit here and I’d like very much to try to answer
Arupa Jhana is needed for enlightment but it is not to be attached with
Entering boundless space, boundles consciousness, boundless emptiness (your sense will increase and recognize these) the last is perception and non-perception (this means you in full sense, no more identification for everything) = as meditators it is always been ‘sees object’ ‘object look back’ ‘become one with object’ . As you look back you’ll see yourself is only emptiness, shocked , trumbled etc.
Without these arupa jhana, quite impossible to look yourself in full sense of emptiness which is borned from avijja. You might have the idea but not till you sense it
