How do I ensure I don't destroy my knees during sitting meditation?

Regarding sitting meditation pose (asana), Sri Lanka’s Buddha images usually show ‘half sitting pose’ (siddhasana) but not ‘full sitting pose’ (padmasana).

It seems half sitting pose is a standard style for cross-legged position in Indian early Buddhism?

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Venerable. Great quote. I must have been reborn as a “strict” jati. When I worked in a large office, occupational therapists would visit annually to ensure everyone’s office chairs, desks and computer screens were adjusted ‘correctly’ or ‘ergonomically’. But they would scold me because I never rested my back on the office chair. Never did, like right now, as I am typing. :grin:

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I’m quite flexible but (as a monk) I still lean against a wall quite regularly. I find it helpful to have different postures. (Thanks @Dhammanando for that passage.) But I never do full lotus for meditation, and when I gave a retreat a few weeks ago it was the only posture I forbid. :laughing: Because many people mess up their knees with it.

Check this out. All sorts of stretches specifically for meditation. Some will be more important than others, dependent on where you’re stiffest. Addresses both back and knee problems, both of which I’ve had mild versions of.

And if you’re stubborn and want to do full lotus anyway :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, there’s this.

Hope that helps.

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I used that for many years too. I was able to use that posture with a thick cushion to preserve the curve in my lower back and sit up straight. It had all of the stability of a lotus position, but with none of the knee torture.

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Hi Sanku! As someone who badly hurt both of my knees due to meditation, I want to give you permission to sit in a chair! Lots of people here are talking about modifying floor positions, but even sitting continuously in something like the Burmese posture was really detrimental to my knees. Even to this day one of my knees will spontaneously dislocate if I loose my balance - so don’t be like me lol!

I really do think that if you experience any kind of pain or discomfort in your knees you need to find a different posture that is supportive. At the end of the day hurting your body isn’t going to be conducive to anything, let alone meditation.

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This is such a great question, and I know that through the years these kinds of questions have been really well addressed by Buddhist Society of Western Australia in general. I think when we place the emphasis on cultivating samadhi we really should be looking to find comfortable postures that really are conducive to allowing our minds to be absorptive rather than focused on extreme pain in our extremities. What was mentioned earlier about the Burmese positions I think is really good advice and certainly advice that I’ve taken to heart through the years and there’s even a Burmese novice position where in my case my right extremity I tuck back behind myself leaving just my left leg out front and find this a reasonably good way to take pressure off of the extremities during long meditation. I’ve also found even when I was a temporary novice I would set up cushions in advance of the morning or evening meditation and chanting, to make sure that I had one of the larger sitting cushions so that I could elevate my butt above my knee level and this took a lot of stress off of my knees.

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I sat in Seiza posture for many sesshins and slowly my legs relaxed, but I am now sitting in the raja asana. The Seiza is very close to the vajra Asana . But do not hurt you knees r the Rochester Zen Center Philip. Kaplaeu suggested we put an extra cushion under the leg that will not lie flat cross legged is good enough. The main factor is you want to get the right feeling in the spine and use the right muscles There are natural curves and you can use your muscles until you start to get the sense of the Upright posture. If you get the right posture right the beginning you can relax a little.Be realistic. You can tell if you are creating more stress by your posture or less. Also do yoga. Never force you legs into the full lotus. Good luck a good tiga teacher can answer all your questions.

This too is an attachment. It can be a big attachment later on when you develop on the path.
I believe the posture is simply a comfortable position that enables you to focus your mind appropriately.

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Thank you for introducing me to the Burmese style, it works really well for me so far. I can’t tell you how happy I was when I found out how stable and easy this sitting posture was for me.

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Congratulations! Welcome to the club!

In my 20s I meditated cross legged on the floor or ground. I am not 20 anymore… In my 40s I switched to a chair because sitting on the floor, cross legged, became painful. I think comfort is more important than pose. In my Hindu days I was chastised for sitting higher than the teacher. I merely pointed at the old people sitting on benches, next to me, but I was not considered “old enough” by some, apparently. I accept my physical limitations, and try not to let it get in the way of actually meditating. (Honestly I find a good ‘parade rest’ stance to be quite comfortable)

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Hi @Tukaram,

Welcome to the D&D forum!

Enjoy the multiple resources here available: may these be of assistance along the path.

Should you have any questions, feel free to contact the @moderators.

With Metta,
Ric
On behalf of the moderators

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It seems that most suggestion for alleviating pain here is to do stretching. But be careful because stretching can actually make the problem worse in the long run. Based on my experience to alleviate physical issues, it is better to do self massage and resistance exercise instead of stretching.

Here is two great videos from a physio therapist that explain lower body issues related to knee, how to massage, and the appropriate exercises:

Hope it helps! :pray:t3:

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That’s great! Happy to have pointed you in that direction. :slightly_smiling_face: But I would also echo what others have said. That it’s fine to sit on chairs. And that some strength exercises can be really beneficial (in my experience, in case the back is the problem and not the knees).

The main obstacle to flexibility and assuming a comfortable Meditation asana seems to be some sort of inbuilt reflex mechanism. The muscles being streched tend to reflexively contract at some point in order to protect themselves. Weaker a muscle is more easily this is triggered. I think this is the main culprit causing too much pressure on the knees.This can be minimised by slowly and mindfully assuming the asana. If the legs are relaxed enough that they sort of feel floating or resting on the floor this is better i think.

But on a more encouraging note, as one Monk said, once you go deep in Meditation and Passaddhi arises powerfully all posture related problems are left behind.

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Hi @Lajji,

Welcome to the D&D forum!

Enjoy the multiple resources here available: may these be of assistance along the path.

Should you have any questions, feel free to contact the @moderators.

With Metta,
Ric
On behalf of the moderators

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I had the same way of thinking as you until recently. A couple of months ago I was sitting in half-lotus on a wooden chair working at my PC. If you stay this way for a long-ish period of time, it is likely your upper leg will become numb. This happened to me that time as well - with the exception that it stayed numb for about four or five hours. Some places on my right foot stayed numb for days after this.

It turned out that while sitting I most likely applied too much pressure on my sciatic nerve. After all numbness went away I experienced rather severe muscle spasms in my right leg, especially when sleeping, I have almost constant pains in my right buttock because of constant muscle tension and will have to do physiotherapy for quite some time.

This is not to complain: this is a cautionary tale. It is great you wish to conform to the Sangha’s standards, but look what doing it improperly may lead to.