I think it’s better to ordain later than earlier, in general.
In ordaining too early one essentially relies on there being an excellent program where they can easily restrain & make you comfortable, but this is too much to ask for nowadays and so one runs a big risk of it not working out at all.
Whereas in postponing one can train & learn much beforehand, be more independent, can plan things out well and be more of an asset when one eventually does join a group.
Therefore training on your own will open doors & create openings which otherwise wouldn’t be there and you will have much more say in how your life & training plays out if you do not rush into this.
With all that being said there is no reason to drag out the preparations & research either and it shouldn’t take a long time to evaluate your options to see if there is an opening that you would like to pursue.
Just to clarify, I am not a bhikkhuni. I am a Sayalay, or Silashin, ordained in the Burmese tradition. I don’t keep all the rules of a bhikkhuni; just two handfuls.
Ayya @vimalanyani has already given a very good overview over the situation in Europe. The only thing I may add perhaps is that I don’t believe it’s possible to train as a new nun in Kloster Hassel.
I’m not a monastic of any kind, but this jumped out at me:
From stories I have heard, this is almost the opposite of the case. Because the monastic community requires celibacy, those who experience a call to romance won’t just talk to you less, they’ll leave the community entirely. While sexual attraction may be a non-factor for you, putting on the robes doesn’t make others asexual. It may be very painful to lose a close friend in this way, when you don’t have that same drive, and it’s harder to understand why they’re leaving your community.
Also there’s many other reasons people leave the robes or change community - visa issues, a calling to do wandering dhutanga practice, long private retreat, attempting to form a new community, etc.
I don’t think this is an insurmountable issue - obviously there are many monks who continue in the robes after their friends disrobe or become less close. I just think it’s something to be aware of.
Are you sure? Ayya Dhamma (the abbess) seemed open to it when I talked to her a while ago. Of course, the person must fit into the community and way of life there.
When I visited her a number of years ago I gained the impression that she prefers to remain solitary. But I haven’t in fact explicitly asked the question.
If one would decide to ordain as Sayalay or Silashin in Asia (for example in Pa Auk monasteries or those connected to Ashin Tejanīja, which both heavily focus on meditation), the matter is pretty much straightforward, easy, and quick if the candidate is ready, literally being able to just show up without prior notice and staying as long as one wishes. I actually knew of even a few young people who did something just along those lines. In any case, wishing you all the best for your inspiring journey.
I’ll repeat (and slightly paraphrase) what a senior bhikkhuni told me when I told her I wanted to ordain: “Great! We need more nuns!”
I’m just an anagarikā now, and I’m sorry for being all positive in this thread of sober caution, but IMO living in a monastery is great. Committing to the Buddha’s training in full is even greater.
If you think the Buddha’s teaching is probably true – and you don’t have kids, a partner, a dog, or a special cat that you’re too attached to to renounce – ordaining is probably the most meaningful thing you can do.
I mean, if you’re meditating for hours every day at 18, and you have a strong inclination for monasticism… you might have been a monastic in a past life not too long ago, so you might as well try it out and find out IMO
I’m in the US, you’re more than welcome to PM me if you have any questions!
Hi Amrapali,
Sādhu for your aspiration to ordain.
As the other monastics have replied, it’s a bit of a process most of the time. Though, as Thanuttamo, has suggested you could try the Burmese/Thai meditation centre route (Myanmar might not be so safe right now though!).
What i would suggest is to visit as many monasteries as you are able to, and stay for at least 2 weeks to get a feel for what the community life is like. Even if they are in places you think visas might not be easy (Australian visas are very difficult these days). It will give you an idea of what kind of community you would like to live in. You can then just tell your family that you are interested in visiting monasteries and getting to know monastics. This gives them the idea of the trajectory you are heading in, without freaking them out.
You need to remember that most monasteries are working communities, and you will be asked to do much more than just meditate. There is generally a lot of service required in the first few years. While you are staying, take the time to get to know the monastics, whether it is during the chores period or over a cup of tea.
Once you have a feel for the places that might be of interest, ask if you are able to stay for 1 or 3 months to see how the schedule works for you over a longer period. After this, if you are still interested, you may be able to ask to join the community. Some places you would then serve as an 8 precept anagarika first, then you can request to ordain as a Novice (Samaneri), then finally as a bhikkhuni. You can just let your family know that you are trying living in a monastery for 1 month/1year/2 years and then if you are thinking of taking bhikkhuni stage you can start to talk to them about monasticism as a long term goal.
Thanks so much to everyone for the thorough and thoughtful answers to the OP - some other aspirants like myself are quietly lurking, so it’s immensely helpful.
(Australian visas are very difficult these days).
I haven’t considered any Australian bhikkhunī monasteries at all, after from hearing from all sides how difficult the visa issue is. And yet, I do know that a tiny handful of aspirants from North America who are undertaking anagarika training at Australian monasteries exist. Even if it’s a tiny snowball’s chance in avīci for an American, does anyone know how this might be possible?
I’m a bit dismayed to not even consider any of the wonderful Australian monasteries as a remote possibility at all, and would love to hear from anyone if there’s even a sliver of a chance, how it might be done.
as Thanuttamo, has suggested you could try the Burmese/Thai meditation centre route
Until recently, I had also considered it as one of my options…but a bhikkhunī told me that ordaining as a sayalay/silashin is frowned upon among fully ordained monastic communities, as it’s perceived “queue-jumping,” if an aspirant is doing it as part of the path toward full bhikkhunī ordination, and the training is seen as less difficult than the traditional route. Is this widely held? that it hurts an aspirant’s options later on, if they seek to go forth?
Most monasteries in western countries require that you do the full training at their place, i.e. start as a visitor, then move through anagarika and samaneri (novice) stages, and then several years as a new bhikkhuni still training with your preceptor. If you do a sayalay ceremony (which is not technically a real ordination), you’ll still have to go through all of the stages again. There may also be communities that won’t accept you at all.
There is a very detailed training and many things to learn. It’s in your own best interest to commit fully, and to give yourself the time to really absorb everything. There’s a reason why the training is designed the way it is, and it’s also supportive for your community if you just follow along. So trying to rush it and finding shortcuts doesn’t benefit anyone, least of all yourself.
You have a whole life ahead of you. Why the certainty of how the future will look be by projecting the present onto it, why label your sexuality.
No need to draw conclusions on friends and love from a single experience.
Live life to the full, go to uni, find friends, have friends betray you, keep the rest of them close, be happy, be sad, fall in love, feel the pain of separation, get accepted and get rejected, work in different countries, find a way to smile after work has finished, find your talents.
Welcome to the community, this happens a lot, but don’t let it discourage you. We all know your intention was that of concern & good-will but you ran into an unfortunate textual setup where i didn’t take note of you being new. On the bright side we will now remember that text quite well and it’s good.
There may also be communities that won’t accept you at all.
Thank you, Ayyā - This is exactly what I was asking. I hadn’t been considering the peri-monastic options as a shortcut, but a last resort, since I’ve had anxiety around age limits. A friend has been turned away from several places, with her age being a large factor at some, so I was even thinking about them at all in case I found myself in the same situation. However - I’d hate to find that doing so might blacklist me from future options later on, which was my reason for asking.
As you say, taking the time and careful consideration for each stage on the path of going forth would be ideal, and in fact - how I myself would naturally approach it. However, I’m feeling a bit of time pressure from both lay dhamma friends and monastics in my community, so I just need to be conscious of not making unskillful steps based on this anxiety. Thanks so much for your thoughtful response - it was very helpful.
I’m sure you’ll find a place to ordain! You’re only 35, Sona Theri was 80 or 90 when she went forth and she still managed to attain arahantship!
And remember it’s never too late to pursue something your heart is set on!
I saw a guy on Reddit who went forth when he was 36, a little bit older than you, but still close. He did it in south east Asia, perhaps you might have better luck there.
You’re very sweet, but the number of you’ve indicated is not my age!
I am, in fact, considering Asia as well, partly because of the age issue. Regardless, it’s good to retain some urgency, no matter how old or young we are, I think.
Just to clarify, you can always take off your sayalay robes and start over at a monastery from scratch. If you’re willing to do that, I don’t think any monastery would disqualify you. The issue comes up if people consider themselves as already ordained and don’t want to go through the preliminary stages of training, especially the anagarika part, which is a very important stage in many monasteries.
Age is a concern though, and many monasteries have age limits. In any case, whether there is a hard and fast limit in place or not, it’s much easier to make the transition into monastic life if you’re younger. So don’t wait too long if you want to give monastic life a try!
