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If Arahant has the last consciousness....?

If Arahantship has the last consciousness isn’t that consciousness considered the best consciousness of the body?

(I understand after death no more birth. But while on earth he/she needs consciousness to live)
Not final Nibbāna but if on earth achieving Arahantship is still dependent on consciousness?

After the final incarnation, for the Wise Arhat, there is no more birth. But what makes you think that the Arhat ceases to live in Mahaparinirvana? And what is “not-living” like? Maybe liberation is not lifeless.

Actually I want to understand Arahantship on earth. If he reached Arahantship wasn’t he dependent on consciousness at the moment of Enlightenment and after when it awaits it’s death?

At the moment of Enlightenment, that is when consciousness is not a condition.

At Savatthi. “Bhikkhus, without directly knowing and fully understanding form, without becoming dispassionate towards it and abandoning it, one is incapable of destroying suffering. Without directly knowing and fully understanding feeling … perception … volitional formations … consciousness, without becoming dispassionate towards it and abandoning it, one is incapable of destroying suffering.

“Bhikkhus, by directly knowing and fully understanding form, by becoming dispassionate towards it and abandoning it, one is capable of destroying suffering. By directly knowing and fully understanding feeling … perception … volitional formations … consciousness, by becoming dispassionate towards it and abandoning it, one is capable of destroying suffering.”

22.24. Directly Knowing

Living arahant = they are alive and their consciousness is totally free from greed, hatred and delusion

Dead arahant (final Nibbana) = five khanda process ceased (consciousness ceased), doesn’t reappear anywhere, just goes out like a flame that ran out of fuel

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I believe what Buddha was talking is that awareness that happens because contact. But think in science they can’t say thy main consciousness itself cause contact. That’s why Buddha used mind constantly as needing to be tamed. In a brain scan when there is contact that cause feeling they can see which part it effects in the brain. So I believe contact and feeling is the consciousness that Buddha talked about. But I had a stroke and what I have learned is that the body can keep experience without being conscious but it’s only later in recovery the mind remembers those moments as if your just observing. So that’s the experience Arahant is in?

Thanks. One more question. In the 4 stages to Awakening. You can say that each stage is a better consciousness right?

Than if their consciousness is in that freedom isn’t that the supreme consciousness? Supreme State as used in English translation of pali. Then I’m curious what pali use for words like Supreme State in pali.

Since each stage of awakening has less greed, hatred and delusion, you could put it like that.

I don’t know about the Pali, but the supreme consciousness (if you want to use that word for a mind with no greed, hatred and delusion) ceases at final nibbana, i.e. when the body of the arahant dies.

Then non-returner have one more conciousness experience out of the realm of Mara. At that point they go to a realm not visible to Māra. Then their consciousness is invisible already. So there is a state of invisible conciousness. Although it’s said there is the final Nibbāna where there is no rebirth. There is no staying and no going. No destination. That would be home. Because I’m in my country. I can’t say I’m staying because I’m home. But also I have no destination because I am home.

Tourist ask if I’m staying longer as if I’m a tourist. I say I’m home
If asked where you going to? I say I’m home.

Finally realizing Enlightenment was always said be realizing there was nothing to give up. Nothing to let go. Realizing there was nobody after all.

No staying in this life.
No going in the next.
Like it actually was supposed to be.
Each time a new life.

Thich Nhat Hanh works in a blending of Theravada and Zen, with a unique form of Zen Buddhism that is quite popular among some of those in the Theravada Tradition who have incorporated it into their lives. We should consider Him a Buddha, as nothing in His life points to otherwise. Here, in the Heart Sutra and it’s explanation by which He Teaches His Sangha, if you read this short Heart Sutra dialogue and the explanation, you may find a deep understanding of Non-Self, Anatta, and the Emptiness of all things, which is the best medicine.

From the Explanation:

The Heart Sutra was intended to help the Sarvāstivādins relinquish the view of no self and no dharma. The deepest teaching of Prājñāpāramitā is the emptiness of self (ātmaśūnyatā) and the emptiness of dharma (dharmanairātmya) and not the non-being of self and dharma. The Buddha has taught in the Kātyāyana sutra that most people in the world are caught either in the view of being and non-being. Therefore, the sentence ‘in emptiness there is no form, feelings…’ is obviously still caught in the view of non-being. That is why this sentence does not correspond to the Ultimate Truth. Emptiness of self only means the emptiness of self, not the non-being of self, just as a balloon that is empty inside does not mean that the balloon does not exist. The same is true with the emptiness of dharma: it only means the emptiness of all phenomena and not the non-existence of phenomena. It is like a flower that is made only of non-flower elements. The flower is empty of a separate existence, but that doesn’t mean that the flower is not there.

There is purpose in this, and helps one not go to an extreme that the Buddha prescribes for us not go to so often. The Beauty in Buddhism is it’s Expedient Means, the staircase of giving one knowledge all the way to the point of Buddhahood. I wonder if there are any Pali Suttas that are congruent to the Prajnaparamita, I am posting it, wondering, if someone can quote in a Pali Sutta about the Emptiness of Self, and how it relates to extinguishment.

Thanks for sharing brother. I think there is a sutta in sutta nipata.

Btw He was the monk that first introduced me to Pali Sutta, I was 17 years old. I wanted to go become a monk in France. :slight_smile:

You are Highly welcome to become a monk. His organization is great. I had dreams of becoming a monk when I was 17 years old. I would take long walks in the evening and imagine myself walking across Thailand in a Spiritual Body with grey robes.

Had a stroke and after one year went to Malaysia with the thought to ordain and I had to let go of the idea that I still could have be healthy and still be monk on the 1ste day I arrived. I was controlled by my mind I couldn’t think clear that the body was weak. I also had a wife, now ex-wife and I have son almost 3 years now.

Buddhism is a powerful Tradition of healing that ceases suffering. Even Thich Nhat Hanh had a similar ailment that modern medical science call a stroke. But you can heal and become even stronger than you were before. Keep studying Buddhism and grow your Bodhicitta, you will attain Enlightenment. You have the ability and promise of healing fully, the Buddhists do not limit themselves by what are considered normal standards, they levitate, walk through walls, and have great healing abilities. Give yourself some time, in a number of years your life will become more free again, and you can consider becoming a monk. Even ordaining for a few years will help you and others greatly. I wish the best for you friend. I will meditate with you in mind. Thank you.

@Bodhisattva , sorry I forgot to mention your name sir.

Wow nice dear sir! But what about your parents? Will they give their consent?

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Thank you very much. :pray:t4:

That didn’t stop our dear friend Buddha.

@Bodhisattva
Haha nice sir! I was expecting something like that :slight_smile:
Can I ask you one question dear sir?