Imagining Consequences: Rebirth and Ethics

Yes, I reckon you’re quite right.

Indeed.

I’ve tried to make a case for not closing the door to rebirth. But regardless of whether people believe in rebirth or not, the main thing I’ve wanted to advocate for is that regardless of our beliefs, the Buddha taught rebirth. And while I don’t deny my own acceptance of it as being a part of reality, I want to be clear, I’m not suggesting everyone does the same. Personal development/spiritual life, has to be about taking responsibility for ourselves, making our own choices and setting our own directions.

I’m certainly not suggesting people put all other aspects of personal development down in order to focus exclusively on rebirth!! It may appear that way as I’ve been rather focused on this one aspect here and also elsewhere on D&D… But it’s not the only important thing to focus on… And indeed, should be, and is, for the vast majority of us, something, set aside. I imagine it is set aside quite naturally - as we don’t go about our daily business or practise even, thinking “rebirth, rebirth!!” There are more important things directly to hand.

Also, I don’t think people “taking a stand”, necessarily, precludes an exploration of metaphysical possibilities:

For me, being a Buddhist means Buddhism and Dhamma and most things connected with these are major focuses of my life. That means that sometimes I just enjoy exploring topics within the scope of Buddhism/Dhamma, like rebirth for example, just for their own sake. Mostly just for fun, but there have been times when this play has helped to create a change of perception or view which has influenced how I live or Practise. Basically, for me, it’s normal to find rebirth stories fascinating. It’s not my main Practise. But it’s cool and fun and sometimes extremely informative…just because for me, it’s part of the territory of “being Buddhist”.

I am not convinced of this, I’ve to admit. But it’s a hypothetical… Though I do feel you’re right in what you say about “fear”…doubtless it would still colour our perceptions and thus how we act.

That’s very nice. I’m not familiar with Lacan’s work at all so I’m not sure I’m understanding these terms as you intend them to be understood. But in a general sense I probably 'am in agreement.

Yes, I agree. This is mostly how I view these things.

Occasionally there are turning points where these things can go deeper and cause changes in one’s life… But then, one just carries on, one doesn’t keep thinking about it. I suppose any useful insights just become integrated and we don’t really notice them after a while. Perhaps it would be accurate to say that they become the “new normal” for us.

Well… I can kind of see some…

The practical application would be to influence the approach to meditation and also to motivate me to meditate and to continue to make it a part of my daily life; and also to continue to develop virtue/kindness so that it forms a basis for meditation. Then hopefully these processes will give me some tools to deal with that fear… And thus empower and enable me to take a stand.

I suffered from anxiety for a lot of my life. My friends and family and a couple of trustworthy professionals, and of course, my monastic teachers helped me…

But ultimately it was me taking responsibility for my life that allowed me to overcome this anxiety; and it was my Dhamma/meditation Practise that helped me to do this. I now only suffer from the more ordinary anxieties, but I’ve found, as long as I keep Practising, even these ordinary fears aren’t a major issue. So far anyway :slight_smile: It’s a miracle to me that I can experience happiness - in daily life, upon waking, before sleeping, in meditation - it’s just amazing. That I bounce back after a hard day, is wonderfully strange and only a novelty that has been experienced in the last decade or so! These are extraordinary things for me. If I sound like a crazy person when talking about Practise with a capital “P”, this is why.

When you write about the “Real”…I read: “Suffering”…because reality can be traumatic. When you talk about puncturing the mind and seeing beyond it, I read: meditation practise that has the potential of transforming our lives; but also meditation practise that goes beyond the ordinary and also has a traumatic impact in a positive way…

In the Dhammapada, the Buddha said that mind is the forerunner… As I view, perceive and think, so I will act (mentally, verbally, physically). There are practical applications.

Anyway, Gabriel, it’s been a pleasure conversing with you here. Thank you for taking the time to have this exchange - and with such honesty and courtesy. It’s very much appreciated.

With metta

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