In your opinion, is it the only way to make a better world by breaking the precepts?

Continuing the discussion from Is it ok to take some alcohol occasionally?:

They all are dependently originated phenomena.
Think about what is Jewes doing to Muslims in Israel.
Genghis Khan went back after chasing the Europeans all the way back to Europe. He was trying to protect his homeland.
Even in Sri Lanka Tamil Terrorism is a reaction to the ill-treatment by majority Sinhalese. ( I am a Sinhalese by the way)

Its important to get the role of these practices clear in one’s head. On the one hand are you trying to save the world or trying to attain nibbana? Trying to bake a cake or trying to be vegan, etc (assuming there isnt vegan cakes, but now come to …)? You understand what I’m trying to say. Lets hope no one is caught trying to do both simultaneously. Even the Buddha didn’t try to set society’s ills straight- his number one priority was teaching everybody the dhamma!

with metta

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Breaking the precepts is wrong, end of story. However, the precepts are not commandments from the Almighty God, so you can break them, even though you should be aware of the fact that it is wrong. You can do what whatever you want, literally whatever, but you should be aware of the fact that you will have to pay a price for your actions.

Besides, I think it is possible to come with a situation when breaking the precepts would make our region of Samsara a better place to live in. Imagine people trying to rape someone and you seeing this. You may try to protect the victim whatever the cost, or you may go down the non-violence patrh. Imagine a starving child and a super-rich neighbour who just doesn’t care. Imagine a huge village of astrology-loving Upulvan-worshipping people. If you are a monk, your own salvation and the integirity of the Sangha take the upper hand, of course. If you are a lay person, it is wholly up to you what you are willing to put at a karmic stake. Sometimes, in the Samsara there is only wrong and wronger.

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I think this is the crux of the matter.

Sure, which is why I personally choose to drink but not discuss religion when drunk. Other people may choose to not drink at all. Other people yet may choose to drink and talk about religion when drunk. There is the right course of action, but it is up to you to decide which one you follow, it s not a black-and-white picture.

Why don’t you practice what you believe?
You are helping others but not helping yourself.

Because I am a week and faulty person, and I am not a likely Arahant material, not im my circumstances. Why do people break any other Buddhist precepts? For the exact same reason why people choose to cross the road at red light.

It might make sense to stop doing that at some point though, when you realize it is somewhat pointless.

I dont think we are inherently this way or that way (e.g…, weak or strong) but we are conditioned by our intentional actions.

Moved the topic to the watercooler.
:anjal:

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The effort will make this Indriya faculty strong.

I am sure you know this is the remorse.
Contemplate on not-self nature in you.

The question
I your opinion is the only way to make a better world by breaking the precepts?*

Huh? You cannot think of anyway to improve society without breaking precepts?

What about generosity? What about kindness? What about Compassion? What about Mudita? What about equanimity?

If we look at the suttas DN27 talks about a king who thought it wasn’t necessary to practice these things. It lead to all the precepts not being kept.

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If you wish to discuss the legitimacy of war in regard to the EBTs. This sutta might help.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn03/sn03.014.than.html

And SN3.15
*
A man may plunder
as long as it serves his ends,
but when others are plundered,
he who has plundered
gets plundered in turn.

A fool thinks,
'Now’s my chance,'
as long as his evil
has yet to ripen.
But when it ripens,
the fool
falls
into pain.

Killing, you gain
your killer.
Conquering, you gain one
who will conquer you;
insulting, insult;
harassing, harassment.

And so, through the cycle of action,
he who has plundered
gets plundered in turn.
*

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War is hell. Deepest gratitude to those who are willing to live in hell so that others can live in peace.

And yet it is undeniable that if everyone were to observe the first precept, there would be no war. And why is war hell, apart from the fact that people involved in it are breaking the precepts on a grand scale?

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It’s also undeniable the freedom we enjoy right now are being paid by sweat and blood of those “breaking the precepts on a grand scale”.

I do not believe this.
I think we are always fighting someone else’s war.

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Not true.
That is the war machine wants us to believe.

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Then Yodhajiva the headman went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: “Lord, I have heard that it has been passed down by the ancient teaching lineage of warriors that ‘When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle.’ What does the Blessed One have to say about that?”
.
“Enough, headman, put that aside. Don’t ask me that.”
.
A second time… A third time Yodhajiva the headman said: “Lord, I have heard that it has been passed down by the ancient teaching lineage of warriors that ‘When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle.’ What does the Blessed One have to say about that?”
.
“Apparently, headman, I haven’t been able to get past you by saying, ‘Enough, headman, put that aside. Don’t ask me that.’ So I will simply answer you. When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, his mind is already seized, debased, & misdirected by the thought: ‘May these beings be struck down or slaughtered or annihilated or destroyed. May they not exist.’ If others then strike him down & slay him while he is thus striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle. But if he holds such a view as this: ‘When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle,’ that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb.”
.
When this was said, Yodhajiva the headman sobbed & burst into tears. [The Blessed One said:] “That is what I couldn’t get past you by saying, ‘Enough, headman, put that aside. Don’t ask me that.’”
.
"I’m not crying, lord, because of what the Blessed One said to me, but simply because I have been deceived, cheated, & fooled for a long time by that ancient teaching lineage of warriors who said: ‘When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle.’
— SN 42.3

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This story from opening the door of your heart by Ajahn Brahm is a lovely tale of how violence/war can be avoided.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=R0sMB9qk890C&lpg=PT47&ots=SmOHWc9Np7&dq=ajahn%20brahm%20thai%20communist%20open%20the%20door&pg=PT47#v=onepage&q=ajahn%20brahm%20thai%20communist%20open%20the%20door&f=false

Miko Peled is a Jewish peace activist who just talks like a Buddhist about the ugly face of war.

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