Insight and delusion

This is a recent dhamma session I conducted-

enjoy! Delusion avijja.pdf (1012.5 KB)

with metta


Do you really understand what you wrote there?

Very nice!

I think so :wink:


Thanks for sharing @Mat
I like the Matrix references!

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I like the “Vipassana Nana” chart because I am a chartist, not a fundamentalist. (Investing in share market terminology):smiley:
To further understand this chart please read below link.

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How the vipassana naana, map on to the visuddhimagga:

I left a slide out as I couldn’t convert it fully to a pdf:


(only the aayathana in the aayathana…)

I also suggested poking the corner of the eye with a finger- the image then bends inwards- this shows we are not ‘in a 3 dimensional world’ but seeing the results of the process of seeing.

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Yeah, it is amazing how much we take for granted the six basis.

The link below has a cool anatomical explanation of what is behind the visual distortions caused by poking/pression the eyeballs:

I find this analysis quite helpful - though it struck me that stages 6 and 7 highlight the need for some degree of metta.

Buddhagosa’s Visuddhimagga (Path of purification) (ca. 430 CE), while seemingly influenced by the Vimuttimagga, divides the insight knowledges further into sixteen stages:[4]

  1. Namarupa pariccheda ñana - Knowledge of mental and physical states, analytical knowledge of body and mind.
  2. Paccaya pariggaha ñana - Discerning Conditionality, knowledge of cause and effect between mental and physical states.
  3. Sammasana ñana - Knowledge of the three characteristics of mental and physical processes.
  4. Udayabbaya ñana - Knowledge of arising and passing away. Accompanied by possible mental images/lights, rapture, happiness, tranquility and strong mindfulness so that “there is no body-and-mind process in which mindfulness fails to engage.” [5]
  5. Bhanga ñana - Knowledge of the dissolution of formations, only the “vanishing,” or “passing away” is discernible.
  6. Bhaya ñana - Knowledge of the fearful nature of mental and physical states. The meditator’s mind “is gripped by fear and seems helpless.”[6]
  7. Adinava ñana - Knowledge of mental and physical states as dukkha. “So he sees, at that time, only suffering, only unsatisfactoriness, only misery.” [7]
  8. Nibbida ñana - Knowledge of disenchantment/disgust with conditioned states.
  9. Muncitukamayata ñana - Knowledge of Desire for Deliverance, the desire to abandon the worldly state (for nibbana) arises.
  10. Patisankha ñana - Knowledge of re-investigation of the path. This instills a decision to practice further.
  11. Sankharupekha ñana - Knowledge which regards mental and physical states with equanimity.
  12. Anuloma ñana - Knowledge in conformity with the Four Noble Truths.
  13. Gotrabhu ñana- Knowledge which is void of conditioned formations, “maturity Knowledge”.
  14. Magga ñana - Knowledge by which defilements are abandoned and are overcome by destruction.
  15. Phala ñana - Knowledge which realizes the fruit of the path (nibbana).
  16. Paccavekkhana ñana - Knowledge which reviews the defilements still remaining.

Perhaps 6,7 and 8, I would say.
It appears the practioner is in a cross road at this stage. Perhapswithout Metta the practioner may have some tendancy to end his life.
This is the time people tend to give up. Perhaps need a good teacher at this stage.

What I am still trying to comprehend is the illusion of the mind.
It is easy to understand how mind create those pectures in the mind.
What we experience is the pre conditioned ideas of the mind.
How do you apply this to re-birth?
Does the deluded mind create a mirror immage of the same mind?

How do you apply this to re-birth?

Well at one point you may be aware of your death-bed and the next maybe floating (antarabhava) and after that, if awareness is possible, as a foetus or more likely a baby in the womb.

“illusion in mind”
Is that Vinnana or Namarupa?

I imagine the picture of “Mat”
Mat is teaching Dhamma.
Who is teacing who is learning?
Is Matt and I an illusion in my mind or an illusion in Mat’s mind?

I prefer you stay with the English meaning of ‘illusion in the mind’, as it is meant for people without the need for further complicated dhamma. Having said that, if you were analysing it after seeing the presentation, the illusion of the animals manifest at sanna level, and vanish with concentration.

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Easier to explain using physics - at one level we both exist - at another level we are just mostly empty atoms, and ‘people’ don’t exist.

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Yes, that is where good jhana or samadhi is crucial, as it serves a ‘holding’ function to the more ‘deconstructive’ function of vipassana mechanisms. People with mental health issues need to have sorted things out before getting in into these deep waters or in any case everyone should be doing this ideally in a retreat setting with an teacher experienced with dealing with vipassana progress (repulsion, dispassion, cessation as is more commonly noted in the EBTs).


Indeed, and I think it’s also worth noting that the 7 factors of enlightenment include energy, joy and tranquillity.

I also find it useful to remember that Nibbana is described as the “escape” from samsara, or more prosaically, that stillness is an “escape” from the movement of mind and senses.

True. It is also said that in the ‘knowledge of arising and passing away stage’ energy, joy and tranquillity can arise ie before nibbida (although these are ‘corruptions of insight’ I think they are actually arising due to samadhi arising).